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Old 10-06-2003, 05:24 PM   #16
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Sting, you make some valid points. But it's my contention that it's mainly the governments/power structures (same thing, no democracy, ya know?) in these countries that support the terror squads, not the average citizen. In other words don't blame "the Arabs". It's a few Arabs making choices "for" the many. I do not condone the terrorist attacks, which make me terrified for my friend in Tel Aviv. I think it's important to remember that these squads are not supported by Arabs as a whole, but rather a roguish minority who have all of the power in these undemocratic countries.
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Old 10-06-2003, 06:09 PM   #17
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verte76,

Thats true, but there are some polls that have been taken of Palestinians and some Arabs in other countries which show widespread support for the suicide attacks. Plus, I don't think anyone will forget the images of Palestinians celebrating after 9/11 or the multiple demonstrations that occured in support of Bin Ladin in Palestine.

Not saying everyone feels this way, but the terrorist have more support than just some of the governments and leaders in the region.
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Old 10-06-2003, 06:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Sting, you make some valid points. But it's my contention that it's mainly the governments/power structures (same thing, no democracy, ya know?) in these countries that support the terror squads, not the average citizen. In other words don't blame "the Arabs". It's a few Arabs making choices "for" the many. I do not condone the terrorist attacks, which make me terrified for my friend in Tel Aviv. I think it's important to remember that these squads are not supported by Arabs as a whole, but rather a roguish minority who have all of the power in these undemocratic countries.
If the average citizen stands firmly against terrorism against Israel, yet their government continues to support such acts, would it be appropriate to liberate these citizens from their government?
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Old 10-06-2003, 06:57 PM   #19
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Originally posted by STING2
verte76,

Thats true, but there are some polls that have been taken of Palestinians and some Arabs in other countries which show widespread support for the suicide attacks. Plus, I don't think anyone will forget the images of Palestinians celebrating after 9/11 or the multiple demonstrations that occured in support of Bin Ladin in Palestine.

Not saying everyone feels this way, but the terrorist have more support than just some of the governments and leaders in the region.
That's true. Some Arabs were shown dancing and so forth right after the attack. However some other Arabs were terribly upset and embarrassed at this, and *very* angry and upset about the terrorist attacks also. These Arabs do admit that too many Arabs support terrorists.
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Old 10-06-2003, 07:15 PM   #20
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If the average citizen stands firmly against terrorism against Israel, yet their government continues to support such acts, would it be appropriate to liberate these citizens from their government?
Good question. How repressive are these governments? None of them can be defined as a democracy, not even Jordan, which is basically a "benevolent dictatorship". In the absence of a brutal dictator like Saddam, it's a delicate situation. I'm currently researching Middle Eastern cultures trying to figure out their concepts of freedom and human rights. Ask me again in six months and I'll be able to give you a better informed opinion. Right now my opinion is in large part uninformed.
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Old 10-06-2003, 09:08 PM   #21
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A lot easier to say sitting in comfort behind a computer, with no fear of a suicide bomber showing up on your next bus trip or jaunt to the grocery store.
That may be true, but two oceans cannot protect you neither can a wall, as China found out.

I think the greater issue is of escalation of violence in the Mid East. The neocons would love that - bring on the apocalypse.

Now they've fired on Lebanon.

Israel Warns Lebanon to Rein in Militants
49 minutes ago

By BUTROS WANNA, Associated Press Writer

KFAR KILA, Lebanon - An Israeli soldier was killed in an exchange of fire on the border with Lebanon on Monday, prompting Israeli officials to warn Lebanon and Syria to rein in anti-Israeli militants or face an escalation in the area.

The clash came amid heightened tensions between Israel and Syria, Lebanon's close ally, following Israel's air raid Sunday on what the Jewish state said was a Palestinian militant base deep inside Syria.

The Israeli army was on high alert along its northern border with Lebanon and Syria after Monday's shooting, Israel's Army Radio reported.

The shootings began when a sniper with the anti-Israeli militia Hezbollah fired toward Israeli soldiers on a routine patrol near the border with Lebanon not far from the Israeli town of Metulla, the Israeli army said. Soldiers returned fire, the army said.

But Hezbollah, which is backed by Syria and Iran, said in a one-sentence statement faxed to The Associated Press in Beirut that it was not involved.

Lebanese security officials said two cars and a house in the Lebanese village of Kfar Kila were hit by the Israeli fire but that no one was injured.

"I was studying and suddenly shooting erupted, shattering glass at our home," said Sujud Faris, a 16-year-old Shiite Muslim girl who lives in Kfar Kila.

She and her younger brother and sister hid under the bed, she told AP after returning to their border home. There were several fresh bullet holes in the walls of the house.

An officer from the U.N. Interim Force In Lebanon, a peacekeeping force that regularly sends patrols along the Lebanese side of the border, said a U.N. water tanker truck was hit by three bullets. There were no injuries.

The head of Israel's northern command, Maj. Gen. Benny Gantz, warned Lebanon and Syria that a refusal to stop the Hezbollah activities would bring about Israeli retaliation.

"These actions are very dangerous for Lebanon and Syria ... and can bring about a serious deterioration in the situation," Gantz said at a news conference after the border shootings. "Syria is responsible for what happened here, by letting the terror groups act freely."

A senior Israeli military official said on condition of anonymity that Israel was considering further retaliation against Syria, Lebanon and Hezbollah.

The Israeli raid on Sunday against a reputed training camp of the militant group Islamic Jihad located 15 miles northwest of the Syrian capital, Damascus, came in response to a suicide bombing in Israel that killed 19 bystanders.

Israel withdrew from a strip of territory in south Lebanon in May 2000 after an 18-year occupation of the area in an effort to prevent cross-border attacks.

Most of the border has been relatively quiet since then, except the contested Chebaa Farms area to the east where shootouts between Israeli border guards and Hezbollah guerrillas occasionally flare into artillery and rocket exchanges, sometimes prompting Israeli air strikes.

Associated Press reporter Laurie Copans in Jerusalem contributed to this report.
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Old 10-06-2003, 09:15 PM   #22
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edited.
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Old 10-06-2003, 10:22 PM   #23
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This is scary stuff. Damn.
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Old 10-07-2003, 09:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine


That may be true, but two oceans cannot protect you neither can a wall, as China found out.

I think the greater issue is of escalation of violence in the Mid East. The neocons would love that - bring on the apocalypse.

Now they've fired on Lebanon.
Interesting. The article you cite says there was an "exchange of gunfire" yet your focus is "now they've fired on Lebanon."

Looks like it is 1967 all over again.
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Old 10-07-2003, 10:07 AM   #25
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Oh, no. I'd hate it if they had another war. Now I'm really petrified for my friend in Tel Aviv, must e-mail her ASAP.
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Old 10-07-2003, 11:15 AM   #26
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Originally posted by nbcrusader



Looks like it is 1967 all over again.
I really pray not. The world becomes scarier everyday.

I think our gov't needs to get invoved before that happens.
They may fire on Iran next, then the whole region will be inflamed.
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Old 10-07-2003, 02:39 PM   #27
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I think we all here agree that terrorism can't be accepted. All of is think of Mr. Arafat if we here Israel + Terrorism.

But i think what Mr. Sharon does is terrorism too - as revenge he uses the army and kills people where he thinks they are connected with terrorism.
This is far away from what i think could be called justice or defense.

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Old 10-07-2003, 02:58 PM   #28
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"But i think what Mr. Sharon does is terrorism too - as revenge he uses the army and kills people where he thinks they are connected with terrorism.
This is far away from what i think could be called justice or defense."

Mr. Sharon is not a dictator, but the democratically elected leader of Israel. Its about time Europeans gave more respect to Israely citizens and the choices they have made with their government and foreign policy. Israel is not going to sit back and let their people be slaughtered. They know better than anyone, the lessons of not responding to evil and aggression early, back in the 1930s.
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Old 10-07-2003, 02:58 PM   #29
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Klaus, I agree. I don't like Sharon at all. I think he's bad for the Middle East and bad for Israel.
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Old 10-07-2003, 03:47 PM   #30
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STING2:

Mr. Arafat is also a democratic elected leader of the Palestinensians - the only one who can say this about himself.
Does this automatically make a good gouy out of him?

Sharon and Arafat have more in comom than you think - both need this violence to stay in power

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