Islamic Iconoclasm

[BVS]

I do feel a bit bad about how AEON is being walloped around though--does A_Wanderer get this also? I know he posts most of the "concerns about Islam" threads.

I think the difference is A_W critiques all religions the same.

AEON came out saying this one should be wiped off the face of the earth( and I'm trying to be really careful about what I say) but he tries to come off as being much more knowledgeable in subjects that he's not. And I'm being completely honest when I say, even though we disagree that isn't a personal attack to AEON, I enjoy his perspective. But he's stated some major fallacies in both religions and his approach leaves a little bit to be desired.

 

[AEON]

Yes, I firmly a believe in the seperation of church and state - I don't want the state interfering with the church!

Yes, I also found Judah's posting about Sharia educational.

 

[Dreadsox]

[Q]I do feel a bit bad about how AEON is being walloped around though--does A_Wanderer get this also? I know he posts most of the "concerns about Islam" threads.[/Q]

If you do a search of threads on Islam.....

You would find that I too have been no fan of what I believe is extremism in Islam. I have been accused by some in here of being racist and intolorant.

I have never attacked what I view as extremist from the standpoint of my religion being better or more correct. I find that to be self-righteous and self-defeating.

Extremism, be it Christian or Muslim is wrong. It is an abomination to the common threads throughout both religions. It twists and distorts them.

God is with the poor and the beaten down no matter what the religion. For goodness sake, if we worried more about that, there would be no reason to be trying to sell ones religion as being better than another because everyone would want to be a part of it. And the extremist would have less prospective supporters.

 

[Dreadsox]

I think the difference is A_W critiques all religions the same.

On this I agree.

 

[AEON]

I think the difference is A_W critiques all religions the same.

Give me time And believe it or not, I am the harshest critic of misapplied Christianity. If only you knew the trouble I can get myself into in Christian circles…

 

[Dreadsox]

Give me time And believe it or not, I am the harshest critic of misapplied Christianity. If only you knew the trouble I can get myself into in Christian circles…

We are missing most of how human beings communicate when we post here. I teach non-verbal communication to my students to demonstrate that their body language sends messages.

 

[AEON]

Yes - for the sake of a theological argument (which this thread never developed into, IMO, as the framework of my argument has still gone mostly untouched - only Judah actually addressed one of premises) I definitely failed to follow some good advice from Paul:

“Use your heads as you live and work among outsiders. Don’t miss a trick. Make the most of every opportunity. Be gracious in your speech. The goal is to bring out the best in others in a conversation, not put them down, not cut them out.” Colossians 4 – The Message

How to actually apply this when critiquing another religious text in a forum: I don't know. It is not something that can be easily applied (at least for me); However, I trust that it can be done.

 

[AliEnvy]

How to actually apply this when critiquing another religious text in a forum:

It seems to me that Paul is suggesting that (for this example) rather than critique another's religious text, you could bring out the best in yours and explore with them the commonality and strengths among both.

If you focus on differences in order to be right or better all you really succeed in doing is putting them down and cutting them out IMO.

Maybe look within to ask yourself what your real motivation is in wanting to engage in critisizing the Quran. Do you want to prove its weaknesses - and to what end? Or do you want to truly understand what the text means to Muslims and how they apply it to their daily lives so that you no longer feel threatened?

It's hard to know where you are coming from sometimes with your choice of words.

 

[Justin24]

But here's the hypocricy and irony that you aren't grasping. Here in America Muslims aren't trying to force their beliefs into the political arena, guess who is? Guess who's closest to the convert of die religion here in the states?

But let's look at this from a worldwide view, how many Muslims approach their religion with this "convert or die" mentality? Small percentage.

Your posts come off as incredibly bad generalizations.

But would that attribute to the fact that the muslim religion is not the majority in this country and that christianity is. Would you say differently if it were reversed.

 

[BVS]

But would that attribute to the fact that the muslim religion is not the majority in this country and that christianity is. Would you say differently if it were reversed.

Absolutely. Any religion that tries and force their views into legislation in a free world will hear my criticism.

 

[AEON]

Absolutely. Any religion that tries and force their views into legislation in a free world will hear my criticism.

Only in the free world? Just curious. There are billions of souls that were born into countries you would probably not consider "free."

 

[BVS]

Only in the free world? Just curious. There are billions of souls that were born into countries you would probably not consider "free."

Well to be honest, what can we do? I don't agree with it, but I don't believe in invading these countries to make them change. We are fortunate. I think our responsibility is to be a model and show the world how the free world can work.

 

[Justin24]

Well to be honest, what can we do? I don't agree with it, but I don't believe in invading these countries to make them change. We are fortunate. I think our responsibility is to be a model and show the world how the free world can work.

Isn't that what Bush is doing.

 

[verte76]

Many people in India accepted Islam because of the caste system. They could get out of being "untouchable" and become members of an egalitarian community. There were no swords involved here.

 

[Justin24]

Many people in India accepted Islam because of the caste system. They could get out of being "untouchable" and become members of an egalitarian community. There were no swords involved here.

Well maybe it's because India has a population of 1 Billion people and they would be to afraid to try and take on 1 Billion people. Do you feel that Islam is going back wards or progressing to the future?

 

[verte76]

Well maybe it's because India has a population of 1 Billion people and they would be to afraid to try and take on 1 Billion people. Do you feel that Islam is going back wards or progressing to the future?

It depends on the country. In Afghanistan, it's going backward. The Deobandi sect of Islam, originally from India, is the "spiritual ancestor" of the Taliban. The burka is a Central Asian garment which women in Afghanistan have to wear, whether or not they like it. By the same token, in Turkey it's possible, in theory, to have a mosque, a synagogue, and a church on the same street. They're looking to the future. In Saudi Arabia they're going nowhere, the Wahhabists are running the show and the religious police there will bust you if you're female and you're caught with a man who's neither your husband or brother. You could get killed.

 

[AEON]

In Saudi Arabia they're going nowhere, the Wahhabists are running the show and the religious police there will bust you if you're female and you're caught with a man who's neither your husband or brother. You could get killed.

This is just so heartbreaking to me. I have a seven year old step daughter and to think something like this could ever happen to her really tugs at my soul. And the reality is, there are thousands, if not millions, of little girls and women who live under this sort of oppression.

Life is just too precious to be lived like this.

 

[verte76]

This is just so heartbreaking to me. I have a seven year old step daughter and to think something like this could ever happen to her really tugs at my soul. And the reality is, there are thousands, if not millions, of little girls and women who live under this sort of oppression.

Life is just too precious to be lived like this.

It's awful. It's a very repressive regime.