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Old 07-23-2008, 08:23 AM   #1
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Islam Subway Ads In NYC

I would guess that now, with the controversy, they will be rejected. Should they be rejected/rejected only because of Wahhaj? Is it a free speech issue?


NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ads promoting Islam are to be placed on New York subway cars in September, but a U.S. congressman finds people sponsoring the messages unacceptable.

"I have no problem with the ad itself, but I have a very, very real problem with those behind it," Rep. Peter King, a New York Republican, said Tuesday. He is urging the Metropolitan Transit Authority to reject the ads.

The campaign is to feature ads on 1,000 of the subway system's roughly 6,200 cars. The main sponsor is a grass-roots organization, Islamic Circle of North America.

The ads, simple black-and-white panels, will feature key words or phrases about Islam on one side of the panel such as "Head Scarf?" or "Prophet Muhammad?" and the words "You deserve to know" along with the Web site address WhyIslam.org on the other side.

"The idea is to evoke certain thoughts in the mindset of the person who is looking at the ads and get them to a point where they can reflect upon certain words that one could define as hot words or keywords that get thrown around a lot but are not necessarily defined in the most proper context," said New York University's Imam Khalid Latif, a cleric who is promoting the project in a YouTube video created by the Islamic Circle.

Another of the backers of the advertising campaign -- which will launch in September to coincide with the monthlong Islamic holiday of Ramadan -- is Siraj Wahhaj, imam of a Brooklyn mosque.

Wahhaj was the first Muslim to lead a prayer before the House of Representatives, but King objects to him because he was a character witness for convicted 1993 World Trade Center bombing mastermind Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman.

"He is a known Islamic extremist, and you would be giving him credibility and stature through a known government facility," said King, ranking member of the Homeland Security Committee.

Wahhaj also appeared on a list of 170 potential unindicted co-conspirators in the 1993 bombing case. A prosecutor said that not everyone on the list was considered a co-conspirator.

On Monday, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg did not join in King's outrage about the ads.

"If you were to advocate becoming a Muslim, I assume the First Amendment would protect you," he said.

But King, noting that the ads would be up during the seventh anniversary of the September 11 attacks, said, "I'm calling on the MTA not to have these ads, not to go forward with them, and I don't see this as a free speech issue at all."

King said he sent a letter to the MTA on Monday night demanding that it reject the ads.

The New York Post has reacted strongly to the ads, running a cover photograph of Wahhaj on Monday with the headline "Jihad Train" and posting an article on its Web site with the headline "Train-ing day for jihadists" and the first paragraph saying, "Allah aboard!"

Abdel-Rahman and nine others were convicted in 1995 of seditious conspiracy for their role in a plot to bomb the United Nations, FBI headquarters in Manhattan, two tunnels in New York and a bridge connecting New Jersey with Manhattan, all in one day.

The government said the group also was responsible for the February 26, 1993, World Trade Center bombing that killed six people and injured more than 1,000.

Andrew McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor in that case, said Wahhaj's name was included in a filing that prosecutors were required to provide to defense attorneys in the case, a list of all the names of people who could possibly be foreseen to come up in the evidence. The filing, McCarthy said, has been called a "co-conspirator list." But Wahhaj was never named by the prosecution.

"The only time he came up in a meaningful way before the jury is when the defense called him as a witness," McCarthy recalled.

McCarthy said that although the list named anyone the government might allege during the trial was a co-conspirator, not everyone on the list was so labeled.

Wahhaj said Monday that he was a character witness for Abdel-Rahman in the context of "what we knew about him before the incident," citing him as a "scholar in Islam" and "a great reciter of the Quran."

"People try to make the connection as if I'm endorsing some bad deeds that [were] done by Sheik Abdel-Rahman," he said. "That had nothing to do with it."

He added, "not only have I never been charged with anything, not one FBI agent has ever asked me one question in relationship to that bombing."

Wahhaj also said that he regrets some of his more controversial statements, such as calling the FBI and the CIA "terrorists."

"What I was saying is that not all the FBI or CIA are terrorists, but there are some elements in there," he said. "So if you want to accuse some Muslims [of being terrorists], OK. These Muslims did that, but don't undermine the entire faith. That's what the message is."

Wahhaj said the New York Post's "cheesy" and "anti-Islam" reaction to his participation in the Subway Project is "the very reason the young Muslims want to put out this ad campaign."

Islamic Circle spokesman Azeem Khan called the situation a "perfect microcosm" of what the ads seek to address: that Wahhaj's portrayal in media reports is similar to how Islam is often depicted.

"I think that even more so reinforces the idea as to why a project like this is necessary, where Muslims have to be more pro-active in terms of educating people about their religion, by no means proselytizing the faith in any capacity, but really setting a standard and defining what mainstream Islam stands for," Latif said.

The project is the Islamic Circle's first such advertising campaign. The group has run ads before but not on New York's subways.

The transit authority said the cost of the monthlong campaign is about $48,000.
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:35 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post

"I have no problem with the ad itself, but I have a very, very real problem with those behind it," Rep. Peter King, a New York Republican, said Tuesday.
If there are no issues with the ad itself, then what's the problem?

I mean, can't we say this about hundreds of other ads, companies, churches, etc?

Where do we draw the line? If we start judging all the people "behind" the advertising and not the advertising itself what are we saying?
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:36 AM   #3
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It's fine to question when Islamist groups are pimping themselves and to highlight it.

Slapped prominently on the main page of WhyIslam.com is this gem



Wow, theists really are stupid.
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:43 AM   #4
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The greatest support for atheism came from Charles Darwin who rejected the idea of creation and proposed the theory of evolution to counter it. Darwinism gave a supposedly scientific answer to the question that had baffled atheists for centuries: "How did human beings and living things come to be?" This theory convinced a great many people of its claim that there was a mechanism in nature that animated lifeless matter and produced millions of different living species from it.

Towards the end of the 19th century, atheists formulated a world view that they thought explained everything; they denied that the universe was created saying that it had no beginning but had existed forever. They claimed that the universe had no purpose but that its order and balance were the result of chance; they believed that the question of how human beings and other living things came into being was answered by Darwinism. They believed that Marx or Durkheim had explained history and sociology, and that Freud had explained psychology on the basis of atheist assumptions.

However, these views were later invalidated in the 20th century by scientific, political and social developments. Many and various discoveries in the fields of astronomy, biology, psychology and social sciences have nullified the bases of all atheist suppositions.

Science, which has been presented as the pillar of atheist/materialist philosophy, turns out to be the opposite. As another writer puts it, "The strict materialism that excludes all purpose, choice and spirituality from the world simply cannot account for the data pour in from labs and observatories."

As we stated at the beginning, one of the main supports for the rise of atheism to its zenith in the 19th century was Darwin’s theory of evolution. With its assertion that the origin of human beings and all other living things lay in unconscious natural mechanisms, Darwinism gave atheists the opportunity they had been seeking for centuries. Therefore, Darwin’s theory had been adopted by the most passionate atheists of the time, and atheist thinkers such as Marx and Engels elucidated this theory as the basis of their philosophy. Since that time, the relationship between Darwinism and atheism has continued.

But, at the same time, this greatest support for atheism is the dogma that has received the greatest blow from scientific discoveries in the 20th century. The discoveries by various branches of science such as paleontology, biochemistry, anatomy and genetics have shattered the theory of evolution from various aspects. (See Harun Yahya, Evolution Deceit, 2000). We have dealt with this fact in much more detail in various other books and publications, but we may summarize it here as follows:
And the stupidity floweth over into my domain
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Paleontology: Darwin’s theory rests on the assumption that all species come from one single common ancestor and that they diverged from one another over a long period of time by small gradual changes. It is supposed that the proofs for this will be discovered in the fossil record, the petrified remains of living things. But fossil research conducted in the course of the 20th century has presented a totally different picture. The fossil of even a single undoubted intermediate species that would substantiate the belief in the gradual evolution of species has not been found. Moreover, every taxon appears suddenly in the fossil record and no trace has been found of any previous ancestors. The phenomenon known as the Cambrian Explosion is especially interesting. In this early geological period, nearly all of the phyla (major groups with significantly different body plans) of the animal kingdom suddenly appeared. This sudden emergence of many different categories of living things with totally different body structures and extremely complex organs and systems, including mollusks, arthropods, echinoderms and (as recently discovered) even vertebrates, is a major blow to Darwinism. For, as evolutionists also agree, the sudden appearance of a taxon implies supernatural design and this means creation.
877-WHY-ISLAM Website - Your Resource to Valuable Information on Islam



They could do well to use this platform to sell to the American public.
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:50 AM   #5
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And they hate libruls too!
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Attempts to turn America into an atheist country have also caused harm to society. The fact that the sexual revolution (for example) that spread in the 60’s and 70’s caused immense social damage is accepted even by secular historians.

The hippie movement was a demonstration of this social damage. The hippies believed that they could find spiritual emancipation through secular humanist philosophy and by such things as unlimited drugs and sex. These young people who poured onto the streets with romantic songs—like John Lennon’s Imagine in which he spoke of a world “with no countries, and no religion too”—were actually undergoing a mass deception.

In fact, a world without religion actually brought them to an unhappy end. The hippy leaders of the 1960s either killed themselves or died from drug-induced comas in the early 1970s. Many other young hippies shared a similar fate.

Those young people of the same generation who turned to violence found themselves on the receiving end of violence. The 1968 generation, who turned their backs on God and religion and imagined they could find salvation in such concepts as revolution or selfish Epicureanism, ruined both themselves and their own societies.
I'm trying to find an article detailing the War on Christmas too.
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:53 AM   #6
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But is stupidity a reason to block advertising?
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:56 AM   #7
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No, of course not, I think it's good for fools to get exposure, and to be called on ignorance and dodgy connections. I don't think censorship is a solution.
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:33 PM   #8
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There are ads for churches on subways, as well as billboards promoting Islam throughout the city. It's no big deal for this group to have subway ads.
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
And the stupidity floweth over into my domain877-WHY-ISLAM Website - Your Resource to Valuable Information on Islam



They could do well to use this platform to sell to the American public.
Let's not talk about the violent, theocratic, elephant in the room right over here:-

Press TV - Jewish terrorist document found

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According to the Times of London, the pamphlet unveils several terrorist activities of a Jewish underground group -- Irgun -- led by Menachem Begin, the future Israeli prime minister.

Bombings and murders by underground groups in Palestine, such as Begin's Irgun, hastened the British withdrawal and the United Nations declaration that led to the founding of Israel.

The document is addressed to “the soldiers of the occupation army” and aimed at British soldiers serving in Palestine, then under the British Mandate, preceding the establishment of Israel in 1948.

The pamphlet explicitly warns Britons to leave the Middle East or face death.

It says, "Most of you have been in this country for quite a long time. You have learned what the word ‘terrorist’ means, some of you may even have come into direct contact with them (and heartily desire not to repeat the experience)."

The document was unearthed from a grove of trees in Palestine in 1947.

After the mass killing of 91 British soldiers and civilians in a bomb attack at King David Hotel in al-Quds (Jerusalem) in 1946, Irgun warned, "It is unavoidable that many Jewish soldiers and many British soldiers should fall."

The pamphlet, which is expected to fetch about £500, goes on sale at Mullock's, in Shropshire, on August 6.
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:21 PM   #10
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Recent and relevant.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:59 AM   #11
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A lot of people, asked me if I read Obama's book.

I kept dismissing it. And most of the people that had read the book seemed to think more favorably of him.

Well, I like to think of myself as a reasonable person. Someone lent me the Obama book, "Dreams..." .

Well. I have read about a quarter of it. And I am a little better informed now.

My vote is up for grabs. I am no longer leaning McCain.


I also went to the site

877-WHY-ISLAM Website - Your Resource to Valuable Information on Islam

and spent about 20 minutes reading.

Everyone should do the same.
Why not be open minded and let these people speakfor themselves?

Have you ever gone to a Mosque?

Why Islam?

Why is it the fastest growing religion?

Don't you think you should at least give yourself a fair chance to get better informed about this subject, with some objectivity?

If I can read Obama's book
people should be able to give this a go.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:02 AM   #12
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Do you go to a sectarian organisation for objective advice?
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:09 AM   #13
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It's just marketing.

How can you know you don't want it
if you don't allow yourself to opportunity to be sold?
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:19 AM   #14
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Visit a mosque

We'll do our best to arrange a visit for you.

877-WHY-ISLAM has a nationwide team of volunteers, who host non-Muslims at their local Mosques.

If you're interested, we'll find a mosque close to your residence, then we'll schedule a good time and date for you to come by.

You can visit the mosque, view one of 5 daily prayer services, attend one of their interfaith events, or just converse with the many members of a mosque. If you have any questions, you can also discuss them with the mosque members.

If you wish to visit a mosque in your area, fill out the form and one of our mosque-guide volunteers will get back to you within 24 hours.
877-WHY-ISLAM Website - Your Resource to Valuable Information on Islam

Have you ever gone to a museum?

or a car show?

What are you doing this Saturday?

Why not learn about another culture?

The world's fastest growing religion?

What makes Islam the iPhone of religions?
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:23 AM   #15
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this is the banner ad that was just on this page

one more reason to be open to new ideas
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