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Old 09-21-2006, 12:09 PM   #16
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Many of who?

Oh yes, the many of Americans who don't think that it's just infidels who take to Koran out of context.
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:54 PM   #17
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OK, this and carpal tunnel syndrome.
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Old 09-21-2006, 03:46 PM   #18
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If criticism provokes such a reaction then the religion deserves the criticism.
Agreed.
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:03 PM   #19
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But then there are the 1960s regressives who distort these truths in order to backwash the merits of going after those who kill innocent people.
Such as?
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:18 PM   #20
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Some crazy group is actually demanding the Pope's removal from office! Now I've heard it all. It's about 1,000 people in Pakistan.
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:23 PM   #21
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First they wanted an apology, then his head now they want him to step down. Jesus Christ this shit was what like 4 days ago and they still bitching.
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:49 PM   #22
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Originally posted by verte76
Some crazy group is actually demanding the Pope's removal from office! Now I've heard it all. It's about 1,000 people in Pakistan.
They are members of the extremist group Jamaat-al-Dawaat, which may or may not also be a terrorist group--although they've never been directly linked to any terrorist incidents themselves, they are known to be affiliated with Lashkar-i-Tayyaba, the most notorious of the dozen or so terrorist groups active in Kashmir. For this reason the Pakistani government has had their leader, Hafiz Sayeed, under house arrest for some time now. Unfortunately, like many other extremist groups, they've shown great PR savvy by providing wells, clinics, earthquake relief, etc. in some of the (many) regions of the country where the central government has little control and has done little to provide such services. How much popular creedence this gives their political views specifically is hard to judge, though as with any extremist group, Pakistan's government is unlikely to take strong action against them, as Musharraf's rule is itself fragile and requires continuously balancing the clampdown demands of allies against the reality of a diverse spectrum of opponents who would delight in his assassination (which has been attempted numerous times). At any rate, 1000 people amounts to roughly 0.000006% of Pakistan's population, and as they are not leveling threats, I do not see this per se as worth getting terrifically agitated about. But it is one more illustration of how pervasive the link between failed-or-close-to-it states and a (relatively) high proportion of extremists is. Pakistan has far, far more serious problems than a general lack of liberalism concerning free speech to worry about.
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Old 09-22-2006, 12:55 AM   #23
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Originally posted by yolland

Such as?
John Murtha - who was very close to having our boys executed.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&cd=15
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Old 09-22-2006, 12:55 PM   #24
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Yeah, Pakistian scares the out of me.
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Old 09-22-2006, 02:07 PM   #25
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Musharraf will be interviewed on 60 Minutes this Sunday and has a memoir due to be released on Monday--should be interesting.
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Old 09-22-2006, 04:43 PM   #26
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Originally posted by verte76
Yeah, Pakistian scares the out of me.
Meh, it's got a few bad folks.

And, as Yolland said, it's a politically volatile state always on the verge of disintegrating. Oh, and the literacy rate's only about 30%. And, i guess the fact it's in the top five most corrupt countries in the world doesn't help. Not the best environmental record. And i suppose we all kinda should worry its nukes don't fall into the wrong hands, and that the the nuke technology isn't sold (anymore) to other dodgy countries.

But, hey, we/they have a pretty good national cricket team.

And even with all the chaos, it's still a pretty fascinating, culturally rich, diverse country. And nobody has better food (though, i'm obviously biased).
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Old 09-22-2006, 06:42 PM   #27
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Definitely the best kababs and naan, that's for sure. Now if I could just afford a tandoor and find a source for those skinny little black seeds that go by an infuriating number of names and for which I always wind up getting the wrong thing when I try mail ordering them, maybe I could actually replicate some of them at home.

You're right; one of the saddest consequences of the "volatile state" reputation and the stigma which accompanies it is that the vibrancy and interest of the culture usually wind up lost on the rest of the world. I am probably particularly guilty of encouraging this impression because I get paid to prattle on about political institutions and all the things they do wrong, lol, which hardly makes for a good first impression of any country. There are so many places in Pakistan I long to visit if and when the security situation gets better (to be purely selfish about it). And for sure all the people I met when I was in Rawalpindi were as warm, welcoming and generous as one could find anywhere (except maybe here--one thing I came to realize through travel is that while Americans excel at being cheery and engaging with total strangers, we're downright lousy at hospitality by so many peoples' standards).
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:41 PM   #28
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Definitely the best kababs and naan, that's for sure. Now if I could just afford a tandoor and find a source for those skinny little black seeds that go by an infuriating number of names and for which I always wind up getting the wrong thing when I try mail ordering them, maybe I could actually replicate some of them at home.
Ah, Rawalpindi: my birthplace!

Re: skinny black seeds. You mean black cumin seeds?
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Old 09-23-2006, 12:41 PM   #29
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Erm...got five minutes? Well, yes, that is what the bag of them I bought in Amritsar were called--I stupidly didn't write down what the non-English-speaking seller called them (s------ jeera something, I *think*) but another shopper smiled at me and authoritatively said, "Black cumin seeds!" so I wrote that down and taped it to the bag. But when I ran out and tried ordering "black cumin seeds" from a store in New York (not an Indian one) what I got were, well, some blackish variety of ordinary cumin seeds, which like ordinary cumin were plumper than the "black cumin seeds" I'd been using, as well as too strong, so the flavors were off when I tried them in the same recipes. Then I saw the right thing again awhile later at the house of a friend from UP in New Jersey, and his wife, whose English admittedly wasn't that great, said puzzledly, "Black cumin? No--kala jeera," which cracked me up because so far as I know that literally means black cumin, but anyhow I then tried ordering "kala jeera" from an Indian store in Chicago, which got me these truly tiny black seeds that weren't right either. My Bengali friend here nodded and said, "Yes! Those are kala jeera!", but my Kashmiri student shook his head and said, "No, no--those are kalonji not kala jeera!" (which was what I'd been thinking). Then I recounted all this to an Iranian-American colleague who said, "Ah yes! black cumin! Try ordering it from a Middle Eastern store," which I did, and that got me a bag of caraway seeds labeled "black cumin." I don't know, am I just ordering from the wrong places or something? I know different spices sometimes have confusingly overlapping regional names. What did you call them in Urdu?
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Old 09-23-2006, 01:55 PM   #30
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Erm...got five minutes? Well, yes, that is what the bag of them I bought in Amritsar were called--I stupidly didn't write down what the non-English-speaking seller called them (s------ jeera something, I *think*) but another shopper smiled at me and authoritatively said, "Black cumin seeds!" so I wrote that down and taped it to the bag. But when I ran out and tried ordering "black cumin seeds" from a store in New York (not an Indian one) what I got were, well, some blackish variety of ordinary cumin seeds, which like ordinary cumin were plumper than the "black cumin seeds" I'd been using, as well as too strong, so the flavors were off when I tried them in the same recipes. Then I saw the right thing again awhile later at the house of a friend from UP in New Jersey, and his wife, whose English admittedly wasn't that great, said puzzledly, "Black cumin? No--kala jeera," which cracked me up because so far as I know that literally means black cumin, but anyhow I then tried ordering "kala jeera" from an Indian store in Chicago, which got me these truly tiny black seeds that weren't right either. My Bengali friend here nodded and said, "Yes! Those are kala jeera!", but my Kashmiri student shook his head and said, "No, no--those are kalonji not kala jeera!" (which was what I'd been thinking). Then I recounted all this to an Iranian-American colleague who said, "Ah yes! black cumin! Try ordering it from a Middle Eastern store," which I did, and that got me a bag of caraway seeds labeled "black cumin." I don't know, am I just ordering from the wrong places or something? I know different spices sometimes have confusingly overlapping regional names. What did you call them in Urdu?
Oooh...life is cruel sometimes.

In urdu, we called it kala zeera[h].

Uh, not sure if that's going to help!
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