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Old 10-28-2005, 01:01 PM   #61
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A-W, a couple of points. I appreciate very much your stance that "neutrality" is morally bankrupt in certain situations. However, logically and facutually, I see a couple of problems with your arguement.

1. Your framing of the problem as "action or inaction" is a false dillemia.

2. Re your assert that more weapons= more security and more peace is contradicted by statistical data. Check out Dennis Sandole's Capturing the Complexity of Conflict. He conducted himself and cites numerous other studies which verify that the nations with the most weapons initiated the most violence (attacks on other nations, specifically, not civil wars or crackdowns on protests, etc).

Mark Twain put it beautifully: "To the man with a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail."

As a thought regarding this thread generally, I'd like to reemphasize Hiphop's point about the way this game has totally changed with the advent of WMD. Because they make the stakes of war so much higher, ethically we should all demand much much higher standards of rationale for going to war.
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Old 10-28-2005, 04:14 PM   #62
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This game really has changed with the advent of WMD. Our sporadic wars are so much worse for people than the Middle Ages and their endemic wars because now we can blow up the whole world, not just screw up a peasant's field.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:42 AM   #63
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Originally posted by anitram
Pardon me for being dense, but who gives a flying fuck about what Bono thinks? No, honestly, I mean no disrespect, but he's not my Jesus that I will blindly follow and agree with like some kind of sheep.
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Old 10-30-2005, 04:50 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
A-W, a couple of points. I appreciate very much your stance that "neutrality" is morally bankrupt in certain situations. However, logically and facutually, I see a couple of problems with your arguement.

1. Your framing of the problem as "action or inaction" is a false dillemia.

2. Re your assert that more weapons= more security and more peace is contradicted by statistical data. Check out Dennis Sandole's Capturing the Complexity of Conflict. He conducted himself and cites numerous other studies which verify that the nations with the most weapons initiated the most violence (attacks on other nations, specifically, not civil wars or crackdowns on protests, etc).

Mark Twain put it beautifully: "To the man with a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail."



As a thought regarding this thread generally, I'd like to reemphasize Hiphop's point about the way this game has totally changed with the advent of WMD. Because they make the stakes of war so much higher, ethically we should all demand much much higher standards of rationale for going to war.

I am not sure I agree with Sandole. For example, WWI. The UK maintained tha largest navy in the world, yet did not start the war. France maintained a very large army and was invaded. Yes Germany had bult up their military, but you can't place the blame for the war soley on militarization...there are so many other factors to look at.
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