Is This True???

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Michael Griffiths

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If it is, maybe it wasn't a slip of the tongue when Bush said "Crusade" in reference to the fight against terror! I really hope this is a joke, but it wouldn't at all surprise me...

This is regarding the U.S. Marines fighting in Iraq. So much for 'thou shalt not kill'


'A Christian's Duty' by Matt Bivens

Before this Administration came along, it was hard to imagine that something as intensely personal and private as a man's prayer before going into battle could be appropriated in a business-like fashion. Now, according to "A Christian's Duty in Time of War" -- a pamphlet given out to thousands of Marines in Iraq -- our soldiers in the war zone are supposed to fill out a form pledging to pray every day for George Bush. The pamphlet has a tear-out section which the soldier is to sign and mail to the president: "I have committed to pray for you, your family, your staff ..." The pamphlets were created by In Touch Ministries, an evangelical group that says "We may not all be in the military, but we are all engaged in warfare ... spiritual warfare."

Today's prayer: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics." (Translation: Pray that, even if all agree this war is a horrific catastrophe, even if Congress leaps to its feet in anger and despair, even if millions of Americans pour into the streets begging to bring you home -- even then, pray that the president will wave aside his critics and order you forward.) Wednesday's: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be safe, healthy, well-rested and free from fear." (Well-rested?) Friday's prayer cuts to the chase: "Pray that the President and his advisers will recognize their divine appointment ..." It includes some helpfully illuminating scripture, Romans 13:1: "Every person is to be in subjugation to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."
 
Don't know if it is true, but it would make sense to pray for the wisdom of your boss.

As for the text, I don't like the wording "divine appointment" in this context. It makes it sound like something "special" or out of the ordinary. The concept that "For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God" demonstrates that God is Sovereign - not that certain leaders are special because they were chosen by God.
 
Who decides what is Christian duty? How about those who aren't Christian at all?

I don't like the tone of the prayer. The "engaged in spiritual warfare" part makes me want to vomit up my dinner, frankly.
 
Who decides what is Christian duty?

The Bible.

The general ideas in the pamphlet are Scripturally based, including the idea of spiritual warfare (which has nothing to do with soldiers, combat or the situation in Iraq).
 
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Right on, nb.
ABC confirms they were handed out (they got the info from an embedded journalist), but they are not required to do anything with it. They are being asked to, is all. I see nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
 
It is a brain washing exercise. Similar to what the Maoist did in China or see Kim in North Korea, bless our Dear Leader.
 
:tsk:

Both sides are misusing religion. It just makes me sick. May God have mercy on us for dragging his name through the mud like this.
 
nbcrusader said:
The Bible.

I am a Roman Catholic, equally as Christian as you, but as you know, we do not believe the Bible alone is the final authority.
 
anitram:

Can we agree that God is the final authority?


Michael G:

That's really an abuse of Religion!
And that's one of the things which scares me:
The US, not a secular country use rethorics which we know from history books when King Richard and Co. go to their holy crusade to "free" the holy Jerusalem. I haven't met many christians here who are not affraid of this mixture of war and religion

Klaus
 
"Divinely appointed"? :rolleyes: So suddenly to criticise the President is wrong because he's "divinely appointed"?

It includes some helpfully illuminating scripture, Romans 13:1: "Every person is to be in subjugation to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."


So...according to these people, people shouldn't resist Bush because he's "divinely appointed" - presumably then the Iraqi people should also refrain from resisting Saddam's rule because he's in a position of authority also. What about people in North Korea? Zimbabwe? Saudi Arabia? Presumably according to this logic, the people of those countries can't resist their leadership either, no matter how abhorrent its human rights abuses.

Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes: "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty."
 
Well, as someone else mentioned there is religious warfare being used by both sides. Does anyone remember the bin Laden tapes praising Allah for the successful U.S. attacks?

Interesting though that I read the same Christian bible everyone else does which makes me NOT want to kill people for any reason.
 
anitram said:


I am a Roman Catholic, equally as Christian as you, but as you know, we do not believe the Bible alone is the final authority.

Okay, I guess that would be the subject of a different discussion.

Peace brother.
 
I prefer not to see religion being used for political purposes. I don't care who it is, what the religion is, etc, etc. While I do not oppose troops who want to pray for Bush who want to do it, I don't think this is a wise use of the word "Christian". Personally I am a practicing Roman Catholic who prays for the troops but not the government.
 
Klaus said:
sharky:
we are used to this "holy war" crap from terrorists, dictators and other extremists - but it's still shocking for me that a western democracy uses the same *** rethoric

Klaus

I agree with you both. Any claim of a "holy war" is nonsense and contrary to Scripture.

While I see expressions of faith by GWB, I do not see any claim by the administration that this is a war for the sake of Christ.
 
nbcrusader said:


I agree with you both. Any claim of a "holy war" is nonsense and contrary to Scripture.

While I see expressions of faith by GWB, I do not see any claim by the administration that this is a war for the sake of Christ.

Hmmm, did Bush said something like, America is god`s gift to the world ?


God as warlord,.... no way.
 
Actually, Bush specifically said freedom was not America's gift to Iraq, but God's gift to the world.

There was no suggestion that America is God's instrument for justice, etc. I would oppose any such suggestion.
 
Actually, Bush specifically said freedom was not America's gift to Iraq, but God's gift to the world. There was no suggestion that America is God's instrument for justice, etc. I would oppose any such suggestion.

Ok he said freedom was God's gift to the world. He feels war is the means by which to give Iraq this freedom. America is the one who led the strike. So how is it so far off to say that Bush thinks that America is God's instrument by which to give the Iraqui's their freedom?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Ok he said freedom was God's gift to the world. He feels war is the means by which to give Iraq this freedom. America is the one who led the strike. So how is it so far off to say that Bush thinks that America is God's instrument by which to give the Iraqui's their freedom?

I would not feel comfortable basing arguments on projected thoughts and beliefs. Unless you ask him, you cannot say this is what Bush thinks. Especially given the theological implications of the statement.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Ok he said freedom was God's gift to the world. He feels war is the means by which to give Iraq this freedom. America is the one who led the strike. So how is it so far off to say that Bush thinks that America is God's instrument by which to give the Iraqui's their freedom?
Probably frighteningly close to the truth.

I know a political scientist, so I asked her if this article was true and here's what she had to say...

"I don't know - but I know this is circulating and I believe it be true, because recently Time magazine wrote a big article about the evangelical movement in Texas and how it supported Bush into the Governor's office in a campaign against the natives there - a serious religious crusade where bumper stickers popped up calling Bush 'the last great Indian fighter', so I lean toward believing it.? I'll let you know if some validation comes in - or you can probably search it online!"
 
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I would not feel comfortable basing arguments on projected thoughts and beliefs. Unless you ask him, you cannot say this is what Bush thinks. Especially given the theological implications of the statement.

Oh the whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable. He specifically said that this is a gift from God. He's delivering it to them. If he didn't think he was being used as an instrument, don't you think he would have waited for God to take action? Why interfere in God's plan.
 
I would put this in the same catagory as Grace. It is a gift from God, but there is no way that we can be an instrument in delivering Grace.

God may use all of us in His sovereign way, but that is not something for us to claim when we make decisions.
 
God may use all of us in His sovereign way, but that is not something for us to claim when we make decisions.

This is my point. Don't speak about this war or the outcome as being of God. This war was his mistake, uh I mean decision, don't speak as if God has anything to do with it.
 
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