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Old 09-20-2006, 10:13 PM   #16
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I didn't know what waterboarding is, so I looked up our very good friend, the ever-correct wikipedia, and found this on the effects of it:
Quote:
The physical effects are extreme pain and damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation and sometimes broken bones because of the restraints applied to the struggling victim. The psychological effects can be longlasting (see below).
NOT INHUMANE??? 80s, mate, explain this to me! How do you sleep at night??? Dont you see, you think you are above them, not one of them, but you feel this can be acceptable.

And read on:
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The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. "The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.[2]
Bolding mine.
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:20 PM   #17
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^ Thanks for explaining Angela. I never knew what it was. That's pretty sickening.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I

NOT INHUMANE??? 80s, mate, explain this to me! How do you sleep at night??? Dont you see, you think you are above them, not one of them, but you feel this can be acceptable.
Angela, I said I would probably do it if I knew that the suspect had info that could help thwart a murder plan. If you wouldn't do that to someone who was planning a murder in order to stop the murder, then you maybe you are the one who needs to question yourself. Do you care more for the murderers than their potential victims?

I tell you how I sleep at night; I don't waste any time or effort giving an ounce of compassion for those who would rather murder innocents than look at them.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by najeena
Ideally, anyone who thinks it's OK to waterboard a person should be willing to go through it themselves. In the same vein, I think George Bush should have to spend a few weeks living as a poor, sick elderly person. That might give him a little perspective.
What do the two have to do with each other?

Tell me najeena, what would you do? If you knew someone was involved in a plan to murder innocents, would you not do whatever was necessary to thwart the plan?
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:32 PM   #20
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So you're telling me that it's ok to do this?

Aren't we stooping to their level? Haven't we stooped to the terrorists level anyways with all the wars we are/were in? We're certainly not innocent and I can see why alot of people hate us.

I'm not trying to defend the terrorists at all but that is sick with what we are doing.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Girl1978
So you're telling me that it's ok to do this?
What I'm telling you is that if I know that someone is planning on murdering someone else, I would do what I had to do to that person to stop the plan.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Girl1978
Aren't we stooping to their level? Haven't we stooped to the terrorists level anyways with all the wars we are/were in? We're certainly not innocent and I can see why alot of people hate us.
No, we are not stooping to their level. We aren't car-bombing innocents and chopping off reporter's heads, are we?

Yes, there have been a few incidents in which our servicemen/women have done horirble things. But they acted on their own; it is not US policy to do these things.

It is terrorist "policy" to kill innocents. That's what their work is all about.
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Old 09-20-2006, 11:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
NOT INHUMANE??? 80s, mate, explain this to me! How do you sleep at night??? Dont you see, you think you are above them, not one of them, but you feel this can be acceptable.
I forgot to add; If you are question judge me, at least do it me for the right reasons. I never said it wasn't "inhumane".
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:59 AM   #23
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I do want to make this clear to everyone.

I would take no joy in doing this to someone - not even a blood thristy terrorist, and would only do it as a last resort, but if that's what it took to save innocent lives, I would do it.
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I forgot to add; If you are question judge me, at least do it me for the right reasons. I never said it wasn't "inhumane".
Um, yes you did:

Quote:
It's not inhumane if it's done to someone planning to murder others and it stops the plan.
Now granted, you qualified it a little, but the action itself can't be inhumane in one instance and not in another (regardless of who you're doing it to and why).
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:13 AM   #25
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Well, '80s, since your being a Christian sadly doesn't seem to be enough for you to want to refrain from torturing people under any circumstances, how would you feel if you found out the person you were torturing wasn't even a terrorist, but just ended up at Gitmo or one of the secret CIA prisons by mistake? Or how about the very likely possibility that the person you are torturing is just going to give you useless information to make you stop? Would you still be able to sleep at night?
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:13 AM   #26
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So then let the attack happen where people die and the create a bigger police state to prevent future attacks is what your proposing since Torturing a suspect for vital information is wrong as opposed to people being slammed into a building in an airplane. Gottcha.
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


It's not inhumane if it's done to someone planning to murder others and it stops the plan.
Just because you are doing it to person who is planning to murder people, doesn't make it any less inhumane.
There are other ways to make people suffer and to punish them than torture.
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
So then let the attack happen where people die and the create a bigger police state to prevent future attacks is what your proposing since Torturing a suspect for vital information is wrong as opposed to people being slammed into a building in an airplane. Gottcha.
No one's saying that. But you and 80's are assuming first of all you know for sure this person is guilty and secondly that torture will get you the correct answer.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:11 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Angela, I said I would probably do it if I knew that the suspect had info that could help thwart a murder plan. If you wouldn't do that to someone who was planning a murder in order to stop the murder, then you maybe you are the one who needs to question yourself. Do you care more for the murderers than their potential victims?

I tell you how I sleep at night; I don't waste any time or effort giving an ounce of compassion for those who would rather murder innocents than look at them.
I most certainly don't need to question myself. I know me, I know I am a person who could never lower myself to such levels as one who would participate in the torture and suffering of anyone. The fact that you would, for whatever reason, is frankly what makes them such repulsive human beings. You're capable of better than that. They probably are not. Yet, you choose that.

And you know, I'm surprised at you even asking if it is me caring more for the murderers than their potential victims. I do not believe you are that stupid, so why you actually asked it is beyond me.

Your lack of compassion is interesting. However, that is a personal aspect, and one which is your battle and not fit for here.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:14 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


It's not inhumane if it's done to someone planning to murder others and it stops the plan.
Yes, actually, you said it was not inhumane.

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