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Old 11-24-2005, 06:37 AM   #76
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There are some days when I really really dislike this job. I have better things to do with my day than cut and paste but since you asked…

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where are all my stereotypes, generalizations, half truths?
Stereotypes

Quote:
  • Okay Irvine, first of all the Muslim world is full of rumors, half truths, innuendo, speculation, and good old fashioned lies. It sort of reminds me of the New York times.
  • Is it entirely possible that we can never get along with a certain religious group that wants Israel OBLITERATED, and therefore wants us OBLITERATED because we support their right to exist?
  • Islam is the only religion I'm aware of that calls for the death of those who refuse conversion. and please don't reference the crusades.
  • Sad to say, but Skin color and religion do matter.

Generalizations and Half-truths

Quote:
  • And don't give me the old, " there is no evidence BS either."
  • Why in the hell should we hold these bastards under the laws of the Geneva Convention?
  • Are you serious? I guess we should just bow down to the hague now. Gimme a frekkin break. Maybe we should just disband our entire judicial system. why do we need it? We can just have the Europeans show us how to run our country.
  • We already treat our enemies BETTER. Last time I checked we weren't cutting people's heads off or burning them to a crisp and hanging them from bridges.
Personal attacks
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  • I guess my "neanderthalic thinking" is just beneath you.
  • Well, I guess YOU value all opinions as long as they agree with YOUR way of thinking. Sorry, but I don't and never will.
  • Someday it will all become abundantly clear to you bleeding heart mamby pambys that we are fighting a war against an enemy who wants you DEAD!!
  • Typical Liberal Hypocricy. I love how you refuse to debate me and instead just throw your little flames at me.
  • I don't need anyone to come to my defense, unlike the majority of liberals here who find someone with a difference of opinion and then bully and beat them down until they leave the forum.
  • Oh thats right, I'm not drinking your Kool-aid so I'm not welcome, is that it?
  • I guess if you call NOT agreeing with your twisted Urban Utopian ideology belligerant, than I'm guilty as charged.
  • The liberals would Scream KANGAROO COURT faster than a speeding car bomb.
  • Your head is really in the sand.
  • Many on the left wish the whole Iraq issue would fail miserabley simply because they have such a seething hate for Bush. Just so they have the right to say 'look, I told you so."
  • And don't forget to ask me my sexual preference. We all know that straight, white christians are never discriminated against or wrongly accused of anything. Get off your damn high and mighty righteous horse, please.
  • I know the liberals are screaming like chicken little, but there is balance in this country.
  • That is the typical response isn't it? "I'm gay, I'm the victim."
  • So please, by all means go about your life as if nothing ever happened in this country. Continue to support your left wing, liberal ideology.
Finally these last comments are completely uncalled for and quite frankly insulting to me and everyone on the mod team. I asked you very politely to engage in a more civil debate and this is your response?

Quote:
  • I seem to be the only one ever warned here. Hmmm, is it because the people who attack me have Special rights by the mods in here?
  • I guess because Irvine has like 4550 posts, he's special.
  • So much for MY first amendment rights.
  • No, you get special privelege because you post on here 30 times a frekkin day.
  • I'm sure the Mods will side with you again, and accuse me of a hate crime or something.
If you are being singled out for warning it is because of the long list of rudeness above. Post count has nothing to do with it. I don’t care if you’ve been posting here for one day or 2000. You will be respectful to other users and abide by the rules of the forum or you will be out. Simple. Now I’ll ask you for the last time to please cut the insults and if you want to debate try to do so in a civil manner.
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:39 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Antilarry
note to self - any new member of the forum naming him/herself after HTDAAB-related stuff, is likely to be craaaaaaaaazy. How's that for profiling?
Antilarry, personal insults aren't helpful. Please refrain.
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Old 11-24-2005, 01:01 PM   #78
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Old 11-25-2005, 11:58 AM   #79
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and another thread bites the dust ...
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Old 11-28-2005, 11:24 AM   #80
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Originally posted by Irvine511
also, isn't there something to be said for being "better than" the insurgant/terrorist? we prove that our way of life is worth defending and is "better" than their religious alternative through treating the captured better than they might expect, or even deserve, to be treated? the idea of moral authority, something we once had, is of paramount importance when it comes to the "heart and minds" debate, which, as i initially understood it, was going to be a huge component of the GWOT.
I believe this principle becomes more effective on the micro level - nearing perfection on an individual basis.

On a global scale, it seems that the concept of moral authority may be just illusionary as it can disappear in an instant.

And when fighting a completely different mindset - we may never be able to convince another group of a higher moral ground when they may define morals by different standards.
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Old 11-28-2005, 11:29 AM   #81
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I believe this principle becomes more effective on the micro level - nearing perfection on an individual basis.

On a global scale, it seems that the concept of moral authority may be just illusionary as it can disappear in an instant.

And when fighting a completely different mindset - we may never be able to convince another group of a higher moral ground when they may define morals by different standards.


very interesting.

however, it seems to me that we need less to prove our moral superiority to the terrorists/insurgents themselves, and more to both our allies and then to those populations from which the terrorists come from.
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Old 11-30-2005, 02:59 PM   #82
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http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigat...C-RSSFeeds0312

"According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., himself a torture victim during the Vietnam War, the water board technique is a "very exquisite torture" that should be outlawed.

"Torture is defined under the federal criminal code as the intentional infliction of severe mental pain or suffering," said John Sifton, an attorney and researcher with the organization Human Rights Watch. "That would include water boarding."

On "Good Morning America" today, Goss told ABC News' Charles Gibson that the CIA does not inflict pain on prisoners.

Yet, in response to Gibson's inquiry if water boarding would come under the heading of torture, Goss simply replied, "I don't know."
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:10 PM   #83
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What it said about torture was that the physical or emotional pain, had to be so bad that it either caused organ failure, permanent damage, or death and anything short of that was not torture.


ok

no organ failure, permanent damage, or death

so a gang rape is not torture ?

so proud to have a president that has restored honor and dignity
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:16 PM   #84
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Originally posted by deep


no organ failure, permanent damage, or death

so a gang rape is not torture ?

so proud to have a president that has restored honor and dignity


how about bamboo chutes under the fingernails?

i hear the Hanoi Hilton specialized in this treatment.
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:34 PM   #85
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free manicure



for whiny babies
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:03 PM   #86
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One could only hope.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...653936,00.html
Cheney 'may be guilty of war crime'

· Vice-president accused of backing torture
· Claims on BBC by former insider add to Bush's woes

Julian Borger in Washington
Wednesday November 30, 2005
The Guardian

Vice-president Dick Cheney's burden on the Bush administration grew heavier yesterday after a former senior US state department official said he could be guilty of a war crime over the abuse of prisoners.
Lawrence Wilkerson, who served as chief of staff to secretary of state Colin Powell from 2002 to 2005, singled out Mr Cheney in a wide-ranging political assault on the BBC's Today programme.

Mr Wilkerson said that in an internal administration debate over whether to abide by the Geneva conventions in the treatment of detainees, Mr Cheney led the argument "that essentially wanted to do away with all restrictions".

Asked whether the vice-president was guilty of a war crime, Mr Wilkerson replied: "Well, that's an interesting question - it was certainly a domestic crime to advocate terror and I would suspect that it is ... an international crime as well." In the context of other remarks it appeared he was using the word "terror" to apply to the systematic abuse of prisoners.
The Washington Post last month called Mr Cheney the "vice-president for torture" for his demand that the CIA be exempted from a ban on "cruel, inhuman and degrading" treatment of detainees.

Mr Wilkerson, a former army colonel, also said he had seen increasing evidence that the White House had manipulated pre-war intelligence on Iraq to make its case for the invasion. He said: "You begin to wonder was this intelligence spun? Was it politicised? Was it cherry-picked? Did, in fact, the American people get fooled? I am beginning to have my concerns."

Mr Cheney has been under fire for his role in assembling evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Mr Wilkerson told the Associated Press that the vice-president must have sincerely believed Iraq could be a spawning ground for terrorism because "otherwise I have to declare him a moron, an idiot or a nefarious bastard".

Such charges have kept the Bush administration on the defensive for several months. Mr Bush yesterday repeated his earlier assertion that the US "does not torture and that's important for people around the world to realise". He is also due to make the first of a series of speeches today, outlining his plan to defeat the insurgency and pave the way for US withdrawal. The White House will also publish a declassified version of its war plan.

But it has now emerged that two justice department memos listing permissible interrogation methods have been kept secret by the White House, even from the Senate intelligence committee. The New Yorker recently quoted a source who had seen a memo as calling it "breathtaking".

"The document dismissed virtually all national and international laws regulating the treatment of prisoners, including war crimes and assault statutes, and it was radical in its view that in wartime the president can fight enemies by whatever means he sees fit," the magazine reported.

One technique allegedly used by the CIA in questioning suspects is "waterboarding" (strapping a detainee to a board and submerging it until the prisoner believes he or she is drowning). The White House is accused of defining "torture" so narrowly as to exclude such methods. But James Ross, a legal expert at Human Rights Watch said such a narrow definition was at odds with international norms.

"Waterboarding is clearly a form of torture. It has been used since the Inquisition. It was a well-known torture technique in Latin America," Mr Ross said.

Human Rights Watch this year called for a special counsel to investigate any US officials - no matter their rank or position - who took part in, "ordered, or had command responsibility for war crimes or torture, or other prohibited ill-treatment against detainees in US custody".

The report focused on the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, for his alleged command responsibility for abuses at Abu Ghraib, but Mr Wilkerson argued Mr Cheney was ultimately responsible.

The US is a signatory to the 1984 UN Convention Against Torture, which bans inflicting "severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental". Such practices are also a crime under US federal law.
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