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Old 01-05-2007, 02:41 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattgerth


Yeah I suppose we can avoid the issue and come up with some more cute little sayings since you can't come up with a real reason as to why we should let these people do as they please. So basically it's a bleeding heart liberal thing with you?
Well, you've yet to come up with a real reason why we should be shooting these people on sight, and you brought it up.

The onus is on you, champ.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:41 PM   #62
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Originally posted by DaveC
What's that supposed to mean?
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:41 PM   #63
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Originally posted by Justin24


You of all people should not be talking, living in Texas I believe? Didn't you say that your family owned a farm? Are your helpers of illegal or legal status?

I have family who are farmers, yes. And ALL farmers have benefitted from immigrant labor here.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:41 PM   #64
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They should have only fired if there being fired at and if they were then to bad they missed hitting them.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:42 PM   #65
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



I have family who are farmers, yes. And ALL farmers have benefitted from immigrant labor here.
But don't you complain about the corporations for hiring illegal immigrants?
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:44 PM   #66
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I've got to go to work, this is getting out of hand anyways so I'm going to take my out before I get obscenely frustrated. I'll be back tonight after work.

If this thread is still open, that is.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:45 PM   #67
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http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...0950-4277r.htm

Quote:
Social Security for illegal aliens
By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
January 4, 2007


An agreement the Bush administration reached with Mexico on Social Security benefits would allow illegal aliens granted amnesty in the future to claim credit for the time they worked illegally.
The deal was reached in 2004 but never released publicly because it hasn't been submitted to Congress. The TREA Senior Citizens League, a Social Security advocacy group, recently obtained the document through a Freedom of Information Act, and said it confirms the group's worst fears.
The document is a jumble of definitions and legal language, but a spokesman for the group said what's important is what's not in the text: It does nothing to prevent undocumented aliens who later get legal status from receiving benefits for the time they worked illegally. And that comes as the Social Security system's finances are about to be put under greater strain by the retirement of baby boomers.
"If you open up the trust fund to people who have been working in the country illegally for many years, that bankruptcy date can only come sooner," spokesman Brad Phillips said. "People on the other side of this, people who have been arguing that of course illegal aliens can't get their hands on Social Security benefits, now can't make that argument easily anymore."
But Mark Lassiter, a spokesman for the Social Security Administration, said the agreement doesn't change U.S. law. The law states that those who do not have authorization to work will not get benefits under a totalization agreement.
"To get Social Security benefits, you do have to be legally in the United States. This agreement does not address in any way immigration, immigration laws or override current law," he said, adding that a 2004 law, the Social Security Protection Act, prevents illegal aliens from getting benefits.
But the seniors group said the 2004 law also states that if those aliens later get legal status -- through an amnesty or some sort of legalization plan such as the one President Bush and the Senate tried to enact last year -- they would be able to collect the benefits based on their time as illegal workers.
The deal has not taken effect because Mr. Bush has not signed it or submitted it to Congress. Once he does, Congress would have 60 days to vote against it or it automatically would become law.
Congress has never defeated any of the 21 other totalization agreements the United States has reached. Most of those have been with European nations, with the financial effects known to be smaller.
Some lawmakers say Mr. Bush has not submitted the agreement because it would get caught up in the debate over Social Security's poor fiscal health, which could doom the measure.
Totalization agreements end double taxation, so workers have to pay only into one country's system, and allow a worker who didn't have enough credits in any one country to qualify for benefits to pool his or her credits. In the United States, it takes 10 years, or 40 quarters, to qualify.
Mr. Lassiter said that's not to say Mexican workers who spent less time, such as the six quarters minimum needed to pool credits, would get benefits equal to someone who had worked his or her full life here.
As for the document's status, he said the Social Security Administration hasn't submitted it to the State Department because officials are still waiting for the Mexican government to help reach a side agreement on how to treat illegal aliens. The United States sent a diplomatic note trying to clarify the situation but has not heard back from the Mexican government, he said.
"At this point, there's no action that is planned or that will be taken until that process goes through," Mr. Lassiter said.
Rafael Laveaga, a spokesman for the Mexican Embassy in Washington, said the agreement has to be ratified by the Mexican Congress as well, but beyond that he had no details to offer.
The issue has been contentious for several years.
A 2003 report by the General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative branch, said the agreement with Mexico was shoddy work that didn't investigate the reliability of Mexico's data, or take into account the millions of illegal aliens who would become eligible.
The GAO also disputed the Social Security Administration's estimate that the agreement would cost $105 million a year for the first five years, saying the costs could be much higher given the uncertainty of who could benefit.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:46 PM   #68
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Also, Justin, something to keep in mind, is that low-wage employment is not just an illegal immigrant issue. If you're near a library, I suggest reading The Betrayal of Work, by Beth Shulman.

You asked me if immigration brings down wages. I'm just pointing out that it is these corporations that are bringing down wages, and negatively affecting the lives of not just immigrants, but american citizens too.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:47 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattgerth


Yeah I suppose we can avoid the issue and come up with some more cute little sayings since you can't come up with a real reason as to why we should let these people do as they please. So basically it's a bleeding heart liberal thing with you?
Matt, do you have a problem with logic? I'm being serious.

How is this an example of someone getting away as they please?

Have I missed something? They didn't cross and no one got hurt, show me what part of that was them getting away as they please?
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:49 PM   #70
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Originally posted by Justin24


But don't you complain about the corporations for hiring illegal immigrants?
Where have I ever even talked about this?

Justin stick to the issues at hand. I asked you a questions and brought up relevant issues, stop ignoring me.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:50 PM   #71
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Originally posted by Justin24


But don't you complain about the corporations for hiring illegal immigrants?
Dude, I am not BVS!
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:51 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...0950-4277r.htm

Why does this anger you? They were contributing to our economy.
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:57 PM   #73
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Matt, do you have a problem with logic? I'm being serious.

How is this an example of someone getting away as they please?

Have I missed something? They didn't cross and no one got hurt, show me what part of that was them getting away as they please?
Have I missed something? YES

1: They did in fact cross the border (I read some more news articles about this incident)

2: This goes way beyond this one incident. You do realize that there are millions of illegals living in the USA who are getting away with it. Trafficking drugs, increased crime, putting a strain on our government, etc....

3: As far as shooting everybody goes.... if you give them a reason to not want to cross the border then they won't. I am sure you will have a field day with that.

4: This has been fun, but it is quiting time and I am going home....which has been invaded by squirrels!!! ARGHHHH
Have a great weekend everyone!!
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:57 PM   #74
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Where have I ever even talked about this?

Justin stick to the issues at hand. I asked you a questions and brought up relevant issues, stop ignoring me.
I am not ignoring you and I believe I have answered your questions.

and as far as the Article. If that happens and they get SS#'s I think then they should pay for all the criminal illegal immigrants that are in our prison system.
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:03 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattgerth


Have I missed something? YES

1: They did in fact cross the border (I read some more news articles about this incident)

2: This goes way beyond this one incident. You do realize that there are millions of illegals living in the USA who are getting away with it. Trafficking drugs, increased crime, putting a strain on our government, etc....

3: As far as shooting everybody goes.... if you give them a reason to not want to cross the border then they won't. I am sure you will have a field day with that.
Whatever, you can't use the specifics of this article to argue your point and then afterwards say you were talking about other incidents.

Nice talking to you.
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