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Old 12-17-2005, 11:23 PM   #61
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The Patriot Act is a moot point anyway based on what Bush has admitted doing.

If he can bypass your laws to do whatever spying the administration wants, well, so much for due process and legislation.

I must acknowledge Dreadsox for posting this thread since he appears to be solid supporter of Bush but knows when something stinks. I know it is a difficult position to take for you but good for you.

But I don't think anything will happen from this, Bush is like teflon, despite all his faults, worst layed plans like going to Mars, or revamping Social Security, nothing sticks.
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:39 AM   #62
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
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Old 12-18-2005, 02:28 AM   #63
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That sign is priceless. Seriously .

As for Bush...*Sits here and continues to question why this guy got re-elected*.

But hell, this administration in general just really, really bothers me. It will be a lovely day when any of these people leave office, it really will.

Angela
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:38 AM   #64
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Yikes!
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If you made a phone call today or sent an e-mail to a friend, there’s a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country’s largest intelligence agency. The top-secret Global Surveillance Network is called Echelon, and it’s run by the National Security Agency and four English-speaking allies: Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

The mission is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon’s computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world.

How does it work, and what happens to all the information that’s gathered? A lot of people have begun to ask that question, and some suspect that the information is being used for more than just catching bad guys.
link
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:52 AM   #65
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A_Wanderer - Echelon, Magistrand etc. have been around for a long time. There are papers from agents dating back to 1999 at least. The system was already used to spy on people in the 70s.

You have the crypt link anyway.. however you can read an interesting summary at cryptome.org/echelon-baby.htm
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:59 AM   #66
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That's really disturbing, Wanderer. I guess Big Brother is watching and listening.
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:00 AM   #67
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Gonzales was on this morning. His justification is that Congress allowed this when they voted for the President to use force right after 9/11. The vote for force included all means necessary including wiretapping Americans. Pretty lame argument if you ask me.

If that's the best they can come up with I think they're in trouble.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:05 PM   #68
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
Gonzales was on this morning. His justification is that Congress allowed this when they voted for the President to use force right after 9/11. The vote for force included all means necessary including wiretapping Americans. Pretty lame argument if you ask me.

If that's the best they can come up with I think they're in trouble.
I could see it if they actually made a formal declaration of war. that is not what they did!
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:27 PM   #69
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
Gonzales was on this morning. His justification is that Congress allowed this when they voted for the President to use force right after 9/11. The vote for force included all means necessary including wiretapping Americans. Pretty lame argument if you ask me.
We're living in dangerous times when you have justifications like this and people turning blind eyes...
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:34 PM   #70
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*Shudders*

Yeah, that's really creepy if all of that's true...how on earth does this administration think they have the right to do any of that sort of thing?

Idiots.

Angela
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:28 PM   #71
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051219/...E0BHNlYwN0bWE-

In opening news conference remarks, Bush said the warrantless spying, conducted by the National Security Agency, was an essential element in the war on terror.

"It was a shameful act for someone to disclose this important program in a time of war. The fact that we're discussing this program is helping the enemy," he said.

On Capitol Hill, Democrats rejected Bush's rationale and said he had abused his authority.

"Where does he find in the Constitution the authority to tap the wires and the phones of American citizens without any court oversight?" said Sen. Carl Levin , D-Mich.

Sen. Russ Feingold , D-Wis., said, "We will not tolerate a president who believes that he is the sole decision-maker when it comes to the policies that this country should have in the war against terror and the policies we should have to protect the rights of completely innocent Americans."

"He is the president, not a king," Feingold said.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:36 PM   #72
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051219/...E0BHNlYwN0bWE-

In opening news conference remarks, Bush said the warrantless spying, conducted by the National Security Agency, was an essential element in the war on terror.

"It was a shameful act for someone to disclose this important program in a time of war. The fact that we're discussing this program is helping the enemy," he said.


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Old 12-19-2005, 04:39 PM   #73
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Yeah the words that have been coming out of his mouth lately are downright scary. We cannot let this stand as simply a way of protecting the people...we will not have our liberties taken away and be treated as on the side of terrorists or "defeatists"
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:50 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

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Old 12-19-2005, 05:15 PM   #75
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