Is this enough for impeachment? - Page 17 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-28-2005, 08:56 AM   #241
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by catlhere
Hey posting chums.

I've never posted in this section of interferene before. I don't really have a comment on the thread at hand, but I just wanted to know. Is this a place where everyone hates on Bush and posts threads about how much Republicans suck. I never seem to see much people who think like me (i.e. conservatives). So I don't know if I'd fit in here. Anyway, if someone can clue me in as to what this forum is mostly like, I'd like to know. -goes back to lurking-
This is a forum in which politics, religion, current events, etc. are discussed by anyone who wants to dive in and get involved. If you stick around and take the time to read the threads, I think you'll find a pretty broad spectrum of people posting. If you want to categorize everyone as "pro" or "anti" Bush I think it would be a mistake. There are those who would call themselves conservative who agree with Bush on some things and disagree on others, and there are liberals who would do the same.

If you want to participate, you're welcome to do so. Keep in mind that it's a debating forum, so anything that you say can and will be chewed over, studied, argued and analyzed. If you can't handle having your opinions critiqued then it may not be the place for you. If on the other hand you like interacting with a variety of people with a multiplicity of views, you may fit right in. In either eventuality, you're welcome.
__________________

__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:16 PM   #242
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by catlhere
Hey posting chums.

I've never posted in this section of interferene before. I don't really have a comment on the thread at hand, but I just wanted to know. Is this a place where everyone hates on Bush and posts threads about how much Republicans suck. I never seem to see much people who think like me (i.e. conservatives). So I don't know if I'd fit in here. Anyway, if someone can clue me in as to what this forum is mostly like, I'd like to know. -goes back to lurking-
You're correct in your assesment.
Liberals always want to appear to be openminded and broad thinkers here etc but most are not save only a few.

And Catlhere,don't spend a lot of time trying to convince ppl w reason here. Most Liberals base their reasoning with feelings first over sound judgement.

Out of pure charity I usually post pictures trying to evoke thoughts and sound reasoning for my liberal friends here; most get all worked up into a frenzy as a few of us conservatives have a chuckle

It's all good, I'm even marrying a Liberal.
db9
__________________

__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:28 PM   #243
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


You're correct in your assesment.
Liberals always want to appear to be openminded and broad thinkers here etc but most are not save only a few.

And Catlhere,don't spend a lot of time trying to convince ppl w reason here. Most Liberals base their reasoning with feelings first over sound judgement.

Out of pure charity I usually post pictures trying to evoke thoughts and sound reasoning for my liberal friends here; most get all worked up into a frenzy as a few of us conservatives have a chuckle

It's all good, I'm even marrying a Liberal.
db9
Wow...you can write in sentences!!!!!
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:07 PM   #244
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


You're correct in your assesment.
Liberals always want to appear to be openminded and broad thinkers here etc but most are not save only a few.

And Catlhere,don't spend a lot of time trying to convince ppl w reason here. Most Liberals base their reasoning with feelings first over sound judgement.

Out of pure charity I usually post pictures trying to evoke thoughts and sound reasoning for my liberal friends here; most get all worked up into a frenzy as a few of us conservatives have a chuckle

This is sound judgement? This is open minded?

Wow I'd hate to see the opposite.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:29 PM   #245
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 12:16 AM
We do appreciate diamond's posting those pictures instead of all those big words. However, since a few of us liberals can read, we do notice that the right often considers debate the incessant repetition of the same argument or, if pushed, rearranging the order of the same words much like the President does, believing we will wilt under sheer tedium. Liberals (or left leaning moderates) being the artsy people we are, try to rotate the same two or three arguments for diversion sake.

We are each absolutely intolerant in our own fashion.

In any event, we welcome new blood.
__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:31 PM   #246
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:16 PM
Sure you do, I don't trust any self-styled independent thinker.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:41 AM   #247
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 09:16 PM
i see the left even more desperate to impeach gw as payback for bill clinton's impeachment.

sound reasoning has gone out the window and when u have spokes ppl for the that party spouting off the way they do it's no wonder they come across as a large dysfunctional ship without a captain and without a rudder....sinking slowly into the abyss.

http://www.ga.k12.pa.us/academics/us...ne2sinking.gif
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:57 AM   #248
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 05:16 AM
A picture about the American democracy.
__________________
Rono is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:00 AM   #249
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
A picture about the American democracy.
Everyone thought the Titanic was unsinkable
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:14 AM   #250
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Everyone thought the Titanic was unsinkable
Big ships are difficult to keep in the right direction and when the captain is not able to change directions when it looks bad, they will find icemountains .

Actualy the democracy is in a better state then i thought. It very good to see that Bush is having problems to do what he wants to do. I guess the general feeling of revenge about the 9/11 attacks is wearing off.
__________________
Rono is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:17 AM   #251
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:16 PM
Historically the state of liberty and democracy has been worse in the United States of America (for instance Hoover and COINTELPRO). I do not think that this either justifies or excuses harsh methods and procedure when dealing with issues of domestic spying but it does leave room to think and should help genuine critics avoid hyperbole.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:19 AM   #252
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 09:16 PM
hyperbole
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:19 AM   #253
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:16 PM
Martin Garbus: Impeachment is Now Real

Martin Garbus
Wed Dec 28, 1:41 PM ET



An hour after the New York Times described Bush’s illegal surveillance program, I wrote on the Huffington Post that Bush had committed a crime, a “High Crime,” and should be impeached.

ADVERTISEMENT

Was there then enough evidence to justify the beginning of an attempt to impeach the President?

No.

Did the President have a good defense that he relied on Gonzalez, Ashcroft and the best lawyers in the country (in the Solicitor General’s and Department of Justice’s offices)?

Yes.

Would any significant number of Americans of Congressmen then support such a process?

No.

Given all that, would the turmoil and consequential turmoil have justified the start of that brutal process?

No.

But that has all changed.

Because we shall soon see the consequences of those warrantless searches, the consequences of the government’s five years of secrecy, and even the citizens of the “Red States” will be outraged. Firstly, the warrantless taps will infect hundreds of “terrorist” and criminal cases throughout the country. Not only future cases, but past and present cases, even if there were convictions or plea bargains after the survellance started.

The defendants in “terrorist” and other infected criminal cases, the Court must find, must get access to everything, or very close to everything to make sure they were never improperly surveilled.

The Bush Administration, in these cases will refuse, as did the Nixon administration, to divulge information on national security grounds. Many alleged critical cases must then be dismissed. It will include Organized Crime and drug cases.

The entire criminal process will be brought to a standstill. Cases that should take six months to a year, will take three times as long, as motions go up and down the appellate ladder – as federal judges trial disagree with each other. Appellate Courts will disagree on issues so novel and so important that the Supreme Court will look at them.

Secondly, there will be an endless amounts of civil suits, that we can see will result in substantial damage awards. Commentators claimed there cannot be suits because no one has standing to challenge the surveillance. They are wrong. They do not remember the history of the Palmer Raids in the 1920’s, the surveillance in the Sixties and Seventies. The future will show both the enormous information the new technology has gathered but also the dishonest minimization of the extent of the surveillance.

That minimization is standard operating procedure for governments, whether they be run by Democrats or Republicans.

Thirdly, and most importantly, it is safe to preduct there will be coverups. This administration is not known for its candor.

The coverup starts by trying to get away with the vauge and meaningless defenses. Both Nixon and Clinton tried that.

When that doesn’t work, the coverup will be based on a foundation of small lies. Both Nixon and Clinton tried that.

We do not yet know what the FISA judges already fear – that they have been not just ignored by the executive but misused. The public shall also learn about the FISA judges’ misuse of the FISA courts and their warrants. The courts were created to permit eavesdropping and electronic surveillance, not physical break-ins.

But the facts will show that the Bush administration, with the knowledge, and at times, the consent of, the FISA judges, conducted illegal physical break-ins - break-ins that to this day, the involved person, is unaware of.

Were the results of these “terrorist” break-ins then given to criminal authorities to start unrelated prosecutions? Of course.

The American public will also learn what this Administration has thus far successfully hidden. When Bush came into office, he signed an Exeutive Order making all of his, and his father’s, papers privileged. The order, extending 12 years out, also says if the President is incapacitated, then a third person can execute the privilege. This means anybody – a wife, a family lawyer, a child. The order also says the Vice President’s papers are privileged. It is an extraordinary Executive Order – this has never been anything like this. No one ever suggested a Vice President has executive privilege. If we do not find out what they are hiding, we will see witholding on a scale never before seen. He will no longer be able to use 9/11 and the war on terror as an excuse. It will confirm the fact that illegality and secrecy existed long before 9/11, that it started as soon as Bush-Cheney-Rumsfield got into office. It will show deliberate attempts to avoid any judicial or legislative oversight of the illegal use of executive privilege.

Impeachment procedures will come not because of wrongdoing but because of the discovery of lies.

Both Nixon and Cliton faced impeachments because they lied.

It was inconceivable before the Nixon and Clinton impeachment procedures began that there could be, or would be a country or Senate that would be responsive to it.

In the Nixon case, it spiraled from a petty break-in – in Clinton’s case from a petty sexual act.

But what Bush has done, and will do, to protect himself is not petty. It goes to the heart of the government. He already has a history of misleading the public on the searches conducted thus far. As he and his colleagues seek to minimize the vast amount of data collection, the lies will necessarily expand to cover the wrongdoing. Bush can be brought down.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/200...uffpost/012972
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:25 AM   #254
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:16 PM
I am no lawyer, but I have done enough reading on this to have a pretty decent opinion.

President Bush has actually put us in danger by doing this. Anyone who has been arrested in connection to any terrorist case may now question HOW the leads were aquired that brought the governement to them. By operating outisde of FISA the administration will have to produce evidence to prove or not prove how they got their information. This opens the door for LEGAL challenges up the court ladder. If one court finds that the information was aquired illegally it opens up the administration to MAJOR legal problems and freeing terrorists.

If this administration had operated legally, FISA Court Approved Warrents and the information they aquire are very often, NOT (READ IT AGAIN) open to challenge and VERY often the reason for the tap does not have to be produced in court, protecting sources ect.

Even if they were only TAPPING terrorists, this man may have actually provided a blanket of protection for any evidence aquired that may be deemed illegal.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:42 AM   #255
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 04:16 AM
I was thinking the same thing Dread...these suspected terrorists could get off thanks to the actions by the Bush admin.

I don't know about you but I'm willing to risk my security to save my liberties.
__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com