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Old 01-10-2007, 09:11 AM   #16
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Hmm, interesting. Thanks for looking that up indra. A senior partner at Burns and Levinson should know that. I am interested to see what will happen with this situation.
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Old 01-10-2007, 09:13 AM   #17
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I'm betting most of the "it's not discrimination" posters in this thread drive cars/have driver's licenses.

It's discrimination, and it's not even really a "gray area" type of thing, it just is. FWIW, it's also discrimination to deny a walkup. The only reason they do it is because they need to cover their asses in case someone's hurt.

Actually in a place that has an inside area it might not be, as he (or any other non-driver) would have the option of going inside & ordering. This one doesn't have that, which is where the discrimination comes in.
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Old 01-10-2007, 09:22 AM   #18
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I agree indra. I think it sucks that he can't get service at this DD, but at the same time, pedestrians aren't served at drive-thrus.

i've seen a similar style restaurant where they don't have indoor seating, in fact, it isn't big enough for people to go in. so not only do they have drive thrus but they also have outside standing lines where you can walk right up and place your order. i think this particular restaurant took customers using wheelchairs into consideration, and the DD being reported did not.
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Old 01-10-2007, 09:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan


It's discrimination, and it's not even really a "gray area" type of thing, it just is. FWIW, it's also discrimination to deny a walkup. The only reason they do it is because they need to cover their asses in case someone's hurt.
How is it discrimination to deny a walk up based on liability? Is it discrimination to deny people with heart conditions or small children on rollercoasters?
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

He sounds awfully determined to wheel himself through as any other vehicle. Maybe he has a chip on his shoulder.
I understand what you mean- but does the fact that a disabled person wants to do what others are able to do because they can drive and not be "different" in such an everyday function, does that mean he has a chip on his shoulder? Some disabled people might be perfectly fine with someone bringing the coffee out to them, but if he wouldn't does that necessarily mean that? I can understand that from the point of view of a disabled person, as best I can being lucky enough to be abled. I'm not saying you aren't or can't
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


How is it discrimination to deny a walk up based on liability? Is it discrimination to deny people with heart conditions or small children on rollercoasters?
Guys with heart conditions can ride coasters, who'd know they had one & stop them? For kids, the restraints aren't made to hold a small person so they literally can't ride. There's nothing in a drive-through itself that makes it inaccessible to non-drivers.

Re: liability, if you're serving a walkup and some idiot comes along and hits him, it's the driver who's liable, moreso than DD. Granted some sue-happy bastards would probably rather sue DD, because they can get more out of DD than the idiot. But that's true anyway...people will sue you, for pretty much anything, and valid or not they might win.

Again, I'm betting all the "it's not discrimination" stuff is coming from drivers. People just take things for granted.
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:37 AM   #22
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When I used to frequent theme parks, there were signs clearly posted on 'scarier' rides warning heart patients and pregnant women not to ride. I suppose if they did, it was at their own risk, if their condition (or pregnancy) was not evident and they didn't reveal it, so how could they sue?

I have also heard of obese visitors yelling discrimination that they were not allowed on rides because they were too large for the safety restraints to be closed. But what are you supposed to do, let them fall out?

BTW I had the interview, no news yet..
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:45 AM   #23
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rather than the issue being with the drivethru, i think the bigger problem is the style of the DD, and how it isn't at all accessible.

i'm sure there are others besides those using wheelchairs who can't go their for donuts and ass coffee.

instead of battling discrimination at the drivethru he should be demanding that it be more accessible.
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:45 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan


Guys with heart conditions can ride coasters, who'd know they had one & stop them? For kids, the restraints aren't made to hold a small person so they literally can't ride. There's nothing in a drive-through itself that makes it inaccessible to non-drivers.
A child could technically ride, they just wouldn't be as safe. The same exact logic pertains to this story. If you have a line to receive donuts, coffee, etc and the line is made up of vehicles and humans; who do you think would win if one's brakes decided to go out? As a business owner you don't place people in that scenario.
Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan

Re: liability, if you're serving a walkup and some idiot comes along and hits him, it's the driver who's liable, moreso than DD. Granted some sue-happy bastards would probably rather sue DD, because they can get more out of DD than the idiot. But that's true anyway...people will sue you, for pretty much anything, and valid or not they might win.

Again, I'm betting all the "it's not discrimination" stuff is coming from drivers. People just take things for granted.
This has nothing to do with being a driver. It has everything to do with common sense and being a safe business owner.
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami
rather than the issue being with the drivethru, i think the bigger problem is the style of the DD, and how it isn't at all accessible.

i'm sure there are others besides those using wheelchairs who can't go their for donuts and ass coffee.

instead of battling discrimination at the drivethru he should be demanding that it be more accessible.
Well that's the ideal I would assume. If you're going to run a business there's laws that say you've got to be accessible. Hence the ramps you see, and those big accessible toilets. This particular DD isn't...I want to see where this goes. It is my hope that when this thing is resolved, DD and other places that are "drive-through only" are forced, by law, to have a walk-up area. Maybe when that happens, DD will regret not letting a guy who CAN'T drive through get his coffee...penny-wise and pound-foolish in other words.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:03 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


A child could technically ride, they just wouldn't be as safe. The same exact logic pertains to this story. If you have a line to receive donuts, coffee, etc and the line is made up of vehicles and humans; who do you think would win if one's brakes decided to go out? As a business owner you don't place people in that scenario.


This has nothing to do with being a driver. It has everything to do with common sense and being a safe business owner.
So it's OK, because you can make an argument based on liability. In society there are going to always be people who are more at risk, of anything, based on particular situations. Should a concert venue be able to deny small people entry into the GA/pit area, because they might get hurt? Businesses could lower their risk by denying all kinds of people, is it always alright? Should it be?
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan


So it's OK, because you can make an argument based on liability. In society there are going to always be people who are more at risk, of anything, based on particular situations. Should a concert venue be able to deny small people entry into the GA/pit area, because they might get hurt? Businesses could lower their risk by denying all kinds of people, is it always alright? Should it be?
You aren't getting it. Yes, liability plays a huge part in running a business, do we serve alcohol to minors? Why is that? We also don't serve certain foods raw.

Your examples miss the point as well, you are comparing humans to humans, not humans to cars.

General Admission areas have evolved a lot over the last decade. U2 could actually sell much more tickets if they sold seats instead of GA on the floor because they lose the traffic control of rows.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:42 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You aren't getting it. Yes, liability plays a huge part in running a business, do we serve alcohol to minors? Why is that? We also don't serve certain foods raw.

Your examples miss the point as well, you are comparing humans to humans, not humans to cars.

General Admission areas have evolved a lot over the last decade. U2 could actually sell much more tickets if they sold seats instead of GA on the floor because they lose the traffic control of rows.
I don't think it's me that isn't getting it. Serving alcohol to minors is illegal. Serving raw meat is inherently dangerous, to everybody, that's why it isn't done. Not really good examples.

Of course if a car and a person collided the person would get hurt. That's obvious. Sure a guy could get hit walking through a drive-through. He could also get hit crossing the parking lot. Either way, if a car's brakes go somebody could get pasted.

Bottom line is, they're refusing to sell this guy coffee & donuts based on his disability (inability to drive). If he could go in, or they had a walkup, then he'd be being a pain in the ass trying to drive the chair through the drive-through. But they don't.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan


Bottom line is, they're refusing to sell this guy coffee & donuts based on his disability (inability to drive). If he could go in, or they had a walkup, then he'd be being a pain in the ass trying to drive the chair through the drive-through. But they don't.
They're refusing to serve him because he's not in a vehicle, not simply because he is disabled. I'm sure they serve disabled people who drive or have special cars.

Just think of the precedent you're trying to set. What's next, car washes will be required to service wheelchairs and bathe service dogs? There's never been a reasonable expectation that walk-up customers would be serviced at a drive-through business. They are not discriminating; they're servicing a certain demographic of consumers.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:59 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan


I don't think it's me that isn't getting it. Serving alcohol to minors is illegal. Serving raw meat is inherently dangerous, to everybody, that's why it isn't done. Not really good examples.
Riding a motorized wheelchair in vehicle lanes is illegal also, a drive through is a vehicle lane. Certain meats can be served raw if served correctly but still aren't due to the highly dangerous nature, just like serving walkups at a drive through.

Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan

Of course if a car and a person collided the person would get hurt. That's obvious. Sure a guy could get hit walking through a drive-through. He could also get hit crossing the parking lot. Either way, if a car's brakes go somebody could get pasted.
But there's nothing inherent about a parking lot that causes someone to stop, communicate, or pull out payment that would inhibit their awareness. A drive through does. This is why we don't put vending machines in the middle of parking lots.
Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan

Bottom line is, they're refusing to sell this guy coffee & donuts based on his disability (inability to drive). If he could go in, or they had a walkup, then he'd be being a pain in the ass trying to drive the chair through the drive-through. But they don't.
Bottom line is they are refusing to serve anyone without a car because it would be completely irresponsible for them to do otherwise.

Try running a business once, and you'll understand.
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