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Old 10-23-2007, 02:57 PM   #121
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

And I maintain that it was completely pointless to have Dumbledore be gay besides the fact that she just wanted to help "the cause" (can´t call it "agenda" anymore) of having more tolerance towards homosexuals. I have no problem with tolerance. I just have a problem with using a children´s book to further political views about sexuality.
People project onto literature many things that the author never intended. If she had some sort of agenda to further "political views about sexuality" she certainly would have revealed a long time ago that he was gay. I haven't read the books but from what I have read about this issue there's nothing there to indicate any sort of "agenda"-it seems the complete opposite.

She sure seems to love and respect kids, and that includes respecting their intelligence while at the same time respecting what is appropriate for them to be able to comprehend. Again, he wasn't having wild sex with anyone.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:02 PM   #122
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Nobody here would even concede the fact that it was unnecessary for her to do something like that.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:02 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Nobody here would even concede the fact that it was unnecessary for her to do something like that.
i don't get what you are saying here...
it was unnecessary for her to honestly answer an honest question by an honest fan?
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:03 PM   #124
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And to add-hypothetically what would people rather see kids/teens read?

1. Books with sex scenes between straight characters

2. Books with gay relationships without the sex scenes

Is the issue sex or sexuality? They aren't the same thing. And again we are talking in this case about a gay character who is not even directly depicted as being in a gay relationship, if I am correct in my understanding.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:08 PM   #125
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
´


I´ve read through this thread and have just posted what I could add on the subject but I´ll gladly answer any questions you ask me.


are you sick of all the blatant Latino inclusion you see on television and in the movies?
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:08 PM   #126
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Nobody here would even concede the fact that it was unnecessary for her to do something like that.
No, because then you would have to say it's unnecessary for anyone to be straight.

Can't you see your double standard? Why can't you just admit to that?
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:29 PM   #127
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Originally posted by Irvine511




are you sick of all the blatant Latino inclusion you see on television and in the movies?

No. It´s a different kind of inclusion. They include them because more and more they have become a part of American society.


Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No, because then you would have to say it's unnecessary for anyone to be straight.

Can't you see your double standard? Why can't you just admit to that?

I do admit that there could be a misunderstanding of a double standard. But being straight is the norm. It´s the "given" of sexualities, if you will. No one is trying to make people accept heterosexuality through their character´s example. That´s the whole difference.

I really do hope this doesn´t create more debate as I am just answering the questions I´m being asked as best I can.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:32 PM   #128
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
No. It´s a different kind of inclusion. They include them because more and more they have become a part of American society.
Aaaaaand ... what - gay people AREN'T part of American society? Or any society?
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:34 PM   #129
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Nobody here would even concede the fact that it was unnecessary for her to do something like that.
Your whole set of replies in this thread reek of bigotry and ignorance.

Someone asked her a question, genius. Was she supposed to answer, "He did, but I can't tell you, or I'd be accused of pandering an agenda?" Really?

It's clear to me that you have no understanding of the art of writing, and of creating a world with characters.

Your whole theory about "causes" and "agendas" could have been taken right out of the Conservapedia article on homosexuality. It's utter bullshit.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:35 PM   #130
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I really do hope this doesn´t create more debate as I am just answering the questions I´m being asked as best I can.
So, let me get this straight ... you are making bold statements about homosexual "agendas," yet you don't want there to be replies?
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:38 PM   #131
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No, it´s just that I don´t want to piss anybody else off.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:39 PM   #132
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so what your saying is, you'd rather rowling take your approach when it comes to responding to questions and just not respond to them?
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:40 PM   #133
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
No, it´s just that I don´t want to piss anybody else off.
Why did you post here in the first place?
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:40 PM   #134
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Can we refrain from constantly saying "bullshit" and sarcastically referring to people as "genius," please.



Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Nobody here would even concede the fact that it was unnecessary for her to do something like that.
Necessary, unnecessary...what does that have to do with it? The character as she imagined him just is gay, and you have no sound reason for assuming that Dumbledore took form in her mind in that way because she felt he "had to" in order for her to be "PC" and have that "token gay." People who love or have loved someone of the same sex are part of authors' (and readers') social worlds in real life, just like people who love or have loved someone of the opposite sex are--why should it be forced or "necessary" for an author's characters to reflect that?

It almost comes across as if you're saying, "Being gay used to be seen as unspeakably shameful and perverse, therefore a gay character would never have been included in a children's book any more than a rapist or pedophile would've been, and while I don't personally agree with that view of gay people, I still don't think we should acknowledge they exist in front of children, because then we're setting kids up to believe that being gay isn't unspeakably shameful and perverse, and I've really got a problem with that." Which doesn't make any sense at all. Yes, of course it's a fairly new thing to have gay couples appear in children's literature (setting aside for a moment that Dumbledore's one 'known' relationship never, in fact, actually appeared)--precisely because gay relationships were automatically seen as too intrinsically perverse for children to know about...whereas having heterosexual couples appear was fine. So, yes, naturally there had to be a 'first time' for it, just as (in the US at least) there had to be a 'first time' for showing an interracial couple in a children's book. But we no longer live in the social world the Brothers Grimm did, one where children certainly weren't seeing two men holding hands at the mall, so that time has come. Unless, of course, you don't really accept that two men holding hands at the mall, where children might see, is OK, because you're still holding on to the idea that it's innately perverse and somehow says SEXSEXSEX in a way that a man and a woman holding hands doesn't.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:42 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Say what you want, but there´s this whole "homosexual agenda" where everyone is trying to put at least one gay character or one gay person in every show, book. It´s no longer the "token black guy" but the "token gay guy". And that´s what I have a problem with. There´s a time and place for everything and HP books shouldn´t have been used for that.
So you would prefer if they didn't have token black guys or token gay guys? Yes, what our children need when growing up is pure white, heterosexual stories. That way, when they walk out into the real world, they'll have just as many irrational phobias and biases against minorities, gays and anyone different than them as the parents who sheltered them.

Give me a break. Homosexuals are a part of society. To ignore that or try to hide is utterly ridiculous at best, and plain bigotry the rest of the time.
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