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Old 10-23-2007, 12:52 PM   #91
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Originally posted by Irvine511




is that what you were thinking at the beginning of this thread?
No, it was more along the lines of this new word that I´ve discovered (someone posted it above): pandering. I really feel that there´s no reason at all to say that Dumbledore´s gay besides furthering the homosexual agenda and pushing the notion that homosexuality is fine. Which it is. I have many gay friends. I just have a problem with mixing children´s books with political views, especially on sexuality. And it does upset me when somoene like Rowling takes a cheap shot just because she can. There´s no reason for Dumbledore to be gay in the books besides the fact that she wants to "pander".
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:03 PM   #92
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Again, I want to know why you don't complain about the blatant expressions of heterosexual sexuality in the series. I want to stress again unrequited love affair . NOTHING was ever acted on, thus, who is being sexualized by simply stating Dumbledore's orientation?

And I think you are missing something which is very key here: she was asked a specific question regarding a character. She didn't write anything about it in the book because it doesn't really give much to the storyline itself. Would you have rather she not answered the question at all?

HER characters are designed and developed throughout the story. She even said she knew early on that Dumbledore was gay. She left it out of the story knowing full well herself.

I feel like you and others are just trying to create a controversy when there really isn't even one to speak of.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:05 PM   #93
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


No, it was more along the lines of this new word that I´ve discovered (someone posted it above): pandering. I really feel that there´s no reason at all to say that Dumbledore´s gay besides furthering the homosexual agenda and pushing the notion that homosexuality is fine. Which it is. I have many gay friends. I just have a problem with mixing children´s books with political views, especially on sexuality. And it does upset me when somoene like Rowling takes a cheap shot just because she can. There´s no reason for Dumbledore to be gay in the books besides the fact that she wants to "pander".


writers conduct elaborate backstories for their characters. it seems that being gay was part of Dumbledore's. i don't think this has a think to do with pandering, but you realize the trap we're falling into -- we're saying, "I think that Rowling was thinking ..."

it makes perfect sense ot me that an older, unmarried professor at a school who's active and interested in the lives of his students as an expression of his paternal instincts (again, i'm surmising, i haven't read the books or seen the movies) would be gay.

there are lots and lots of teachers like this. and they're wonderful.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:12 PM   #94
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


No, it was more along the lines of this new word that I´ve discovered (someone posted it above): pandering. I really feel that there´s no reason at all to say that Dumbledore´s gay besides furthering the homosexual agenda and pushing the notion that homosexuality is fine. Which it is. I have many gay friends. I just have a problem with mixing children´s books with political views, especially on sexuality. And it does upset me when somoene like Rowling takes a cheap shot just because she can. There´s no reason for Dumbledore to be gay in the books besides the fact that she wants to "pander".
This ISN'T A F##KING political view!!! There is no gay agenda, gay people exist amongst us pull your head out of your hate and deal with it.

This is just as bad as when children's book didn't include people of other races or other religions, or the "indians" were the evil bad guys and white dudes were the heros...

Seriously, I can't stand it.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:38 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


No, it was more along the lines of this new word that I´ve discovered (someone posted it above): pandering. I really feel that there´s no reason at all to say that Dumbledore´s gay besides furthering the homosexual agenda and pushing the notion that homosexuality is fine. Which it is. I have many gay friends. I just have a problem with mixing children´s books with political views, especially on sexuality. And it does upset me when somoene like Rowling takes a cheap shot just because she can. There´s no reason for Dumbledore to be gay in the books besides the fact that she wants to "pander".
Of all the ignorant crap that's been said in this thread, "furthering the homosexual agenda" takes the cake.

I really don't think I can say much more without crossing the line.

Unbelievable.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:46 PM   #96
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I'm not even sure why this is being brought up, it's only the "christian" conservatives that have a problem with this, and they aren't suppose to be reading the books anyways, it's furthering the black magic agenda.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:51 PM   #97
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My impression of JK Rowling is that she is not about pandering. If it's "pandering" to have a gay character, well it's certainly the same to have a straight one. There are gay people, there are straight people, there are African Americans-is it pandering to have them too? You'd think she had two men having hot and wild sex in the books rather than just having a character be gay because gay people exist. This is starting to sound like the King And King book in Massachusetts thing.. That guy must be outraged by Harry Potter now too and demanding that the book be taken out of schools.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:53 PM   #98
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
There is no gay agenda, gay people exist amongst us pull your head out of your hate and deal with it.
Apparently, not in Iran.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Carry on.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:54 PM   #99
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A German author, I think it was Günther Grass, once explained that throughout the process of writing the book the characters become more or less independent beings that act virtually on their own. At some point the author "declines" to develop the story and the characters are taking this part.
It's a process I think you can't really understand full well except you yourself are an author that deelops stories this way, but I'm sure by writing those stories there is a flow of creativity that's subconscious and flows into the characters. So these characters become like actual people with everything people have, including a sexuality.

And now Rowling got asked and answered honestly.

But really, what is the problem about one character turning out to be gay? There is no sex scene involved, no love affair described in all detail imaginable and she isn't pandering his sexuality in the book at all. She just mentioned characteristic of a human being that is here to be found in a fictional one, not more.
And again, children will take this information (if at all, many probably haven't heard this news) and that's it.

And why should we spoil children from reality? It just shows our bias towards gay people, not the children's.

Better a gay agenda than this pityful straight agenda I would say. And that would mean that there is an actual agenda, which is just nonsense.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:14 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


. I just have a problem with mixing children´s books with political views, especially on sexuality. And it does upset me when somoene like Rowling takes a cheap shot just because she can. There´s no reason for Dumbledore to be gay in the books besides the fact that she wants to "pander".
The thing is the Harry Potter books deal with a number of adult themes anyway- bigotry, racism, politics, torture and so on. Whilst they're categorised as children's books they're aimed at the older child/teenager (let's face it children under around 8/9 probably wouldn't understand them anyway). My son is 11, has read all the HP books, knows the facts of life but hasn't hit puberty yet. His reaction when he heard that Dumbledore was gay was "oh was he" and carried on playing. I think most kids around this age just see the HP books as brilliant adventure stories and don't fully appreciate/understand the wider issues so the books work well on two levels.
I don't see what's wrong though with having a gay character in a children's book like this. Why should all the characters be heterosexual? There's no reason actually for Dumbledore not to gay. Far from Rowling "pandering" the "homosexual agenda" I think she more likely was put off from having a more openly gay character as she didn't want to upset the lucrative American market.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:37 PM   #101
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Oh my God...

thinkprogress.org

Conservatives Attack Gay Dumbledore; Claim Vindication For Jerry Falwell’s Homophobia

On Friday, British author J.K. Rowling revealed for the first time that Albus Dumbledore, one of the central heroes in the record-breaking Harry Potter series, is in fact a gay man. Asked if Dumbledore, “who believed in the prevailing power of love,” had ever fallen “in love himself,” Rowling said that he once had with another male wizard.

While Rowling considers her novels to be a “prolonged argument for tolerance” and most fans were “thrilled with the announcement,” some conservative blogs are criticizing the revelation:

- Psycheout at Blogs 4 Brownback called it “revolting,” saying “Dumbledore is a gay homosexual who doesn’t deserve to live on God’s green earth.”

- At Redstate, dvdmsr says the revelation means that “Dumbledore was more flawed than I thought.”

- Don Surber wondered why the audience would “applaud” the revelation and suggested that Rowling was “knock[ing] the Christians” to “sell books.”



One prominent conservative blog, Newsbusters, is claiming that the revelation somehow vindicates the late Rev. Jerry Falwell, who was showered with ridicule in 1999 after declaring that one of the Teletubbies, Tinky Winky, was gay. Mark Finkelstein, a Republican official in upstate New York, writes that “somewhere, Jerry Falwell is smiling” about the news:

What’s that? It now turns out that Dumbledore is gay? That guy who was the headmaster at Harry Potter’s Hogwarts? Author J.K. Rowling said so herself? […]

And while Falwell was thoroughly lambasted in the MSM for his suggestion, the Times tells us that Rowlings’s revelation inspired “applause.”

Somewhere, Jerry Falwell is smiling.



First, Harry Potter and the Teletubbies are completely unrelated. The sexual orientation of a character in one fictional world cannot vindicate claims about the sexual orientation of a separate character in a separate fictional world.

Even if Finkelstein’s larger point is that Falwell was right that some children’s entertainment include “undisclosed gay characters,” Falwell was wrong in his claim that the presence of a gay character is “damaging to the moral lives of children.” As Jacob Weisberg wrote in 1999, “there’s no scientific or psychological basis” for that claim:

There’s no scientific or psychological basis for believing that children are affected in their sexual development or eventual sexual orientation by exposure to homosexuality–on television or in real life. If the creators of cartoons are intentionally or unintentionally giving children the idea that gay people are part of the big, happy human family, that’s a good thing, not a bad one.

The audience applauded Rowling’s message because it was one of tolerance; Falwell was criticized because his one was of hatred, based on gay stereotypes. The need for tolerance is reinforced by the conservative blogosphere’s reaction to a fictional character being gay.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:39 PM   #102
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it's very true about children. children don't think there's anything wrong with a man who loves a man or a woman who loves a woman until they are told that there's something wrong with it.

they keep it simple. i remember a pre-kindergarten teacher telling me that she was once having the kids settle down for nap, and one of the girls said, "you know what Mrs. So-and-So? sometimes, a girl can love a girl." and she said, "yes, that's right, sometimes that's true."

and that was the end of it. that's all it needs to be.

but i'm glad we're having this thread. it sort of exposes where much of homophobia comes from. straight people's fear of a sexuality different from their own. because, apparently, that's all some people see when they hear the word gay. they're the one's overreacting to their own sex-obsessed thoughts.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:39 PM   #103
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Originally posted by Diemen


Of all the ignorant crap that's been said in this thread, "furthering the homosexual agenda" takes the cake.

I really don't think I can say much more without crossing the line.

Unbelievable.
Say what you want, but there´s this whole "homosexual agenda" where everyone is trying to put at least one gay character or one gay person in every show, book. It´s no longer the "token black guy" but the "token gay guy". And that´s what I have a problem with. There´s a time and place for everything and HP books shouldn´t have been used for that.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:40 PM   #104
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I'd like to think that most people have no latent sexual attraction to the children that they're around...but I get the sense like a lot of the heterosexual men around here are constantly holding themselves back from wanting to have sex with them. If that's the case, then you guys have the problem, and stop scapegoating homosexuals for your own perversions!
Yes, because of course the right way to counteract prejudice is more prejudice
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:42 PM   #105
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

It´s no longer the "token black guy" but the "token gay guy". And that´s what I have a problem with. There´s a time and place for everything and HP books shouldn´t have been used for that.
So you had a problem with the "token black guy" too?
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