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Old 08-06-2003, 11:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I don't believe that religion is at all inherently divisive.

It is what humans do w/ it, and how they twist it for evil purposes, that is divisive.
But if religion is a manifestation of what humanity is "ideally" supposed to achieve... then don't you think the ambiguity of orthodox religions has truncated this pursuit?

Any idea on a large scale, as kobe was eluding to, has the capacity to cause misinterpretation and conflict. I think the question has to do with whether this is a result of the nature of religion... or a collective human ignorance that distorts thoughts from sources of both irrational and rational domains.

Religion is such a big issue because it is a universal value system that polarizes even the indifferent... not everyone subscribes to it, but everyone has an opinion on it. If religion weren't so embedded in the design of most political organizations, would its exposed idealism still have the potential for war?

I tried not to put too much bias in my comments... I speak from a vantage of indifference.

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Old 08-07-2003, 03:04 AM   #17
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Religion doesn't have to be divisive in practice, but I do think it is divisive by design. The books of many major religions declare that their beliefs are correct and others are wrong. Even though the texts of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam refer to the same God, not all beliefs are shared- and they all clearly indicate their way is the only way, straight from The Source. While the architects of these religions hoped everyone would be united under one system, it didn't happen. People in some countries are more accepting of other possibilities than in others, but acceptance (not to be confused with tolerance) of differing beliefs definitely isn't built-in to a lot of religions, and history unfortunately reflects that.
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Old 08-10-2003, 05:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Man's invention was spirituality + politics= religion, and politics divide.
Although I generally agree with you (except that, in the Christian religion, in the New Testament, Christ seemed to call for community), my take on that equation would be:

Wherever 2 or more people gather + a cause = politics, and politics can be divisive. On the other hand, not all politics are necessarily detrimental to an organization or society. Without certain political interactions (e.g., a vote on a plan for a new church building, which would generally come about after much discussion with opinions offered [i.e., politics]), an organization couldn't get anything done.


Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi


those i interact with who are religious seem to gain a great deal from it. and thats great.

but on a macro scale the passion attached to those religions seems dangerous in that it results in a lot of physical and emotional harm. im sure there is also some value in the congregation however.
I don't know the answer to your question, but I can at least make a few possibly relevant observations about Christianity (I can't say much with respect to Islam, Judaism, or other religions):

The Christian religion is made up of churches. Churches are made up of people. People express their personal politics in all aspects of their life. People's politics are shaped by all possible sociological/experiential influences.

I disagree with many of the tenets of Conservative Evangelicalism. However, I realise that much of what I disagree with are the politics of that church, just as many Conservative Evangelicals would likely disagree with the politics of the more liberal laity of the Episcopal Church (e.g., electing a gay man as Bishop), of which I am a member.

I actually am sometimes disappointed that the church does not take a more vocal stance on certain injustices in this world. So in that sense, I'd like to see MORE politics coming from the church. But only in that sense. (Again, though, this goes to my personal political perspective. Can't escape those damn politics. )

I do believe that there is immense value in congregation, in community. However, I also understand that many people feel differently.

As to your comment that "on a macro scale the passion attached to [religion] seems dangerous in that it results in a lot of physical and emotional harm," well, I agree with you that it does seem that way. But I wonder, if religion did not exist, would people not find another way to collectively propagate their politics?
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Old 08-10-2003, 07:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler
I do believe that there is immense value in congregation, in community. However, I also understand that many people feel differently.
That's a Durkheimian notion and I agree with it.

My major complaint is that religions have killed spirituality, raped it, murdered it to the point there is very little left, IMO anyway.
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Old 08-10-2003, 08:09 PM   #20
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Not for all. I don't subscribe to the notion of organized religion, at all. Yet, I'm more spiritual than I ever have been. I think the atrociticies going around the world only strengthens the resolve of people with true convicitions to want everything possible done whether or not it is of their religious persuation or not. As it should be. IMO
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Old 08-11-2003, 05:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
And what the Bible says you should do.
I can`t find no onbiassed people who can explain the content to me anymore.
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Old 08-11-2003, 09:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
I can`t find no onbiassed people who can explain the content to me anymore.
Read and pray. It is God speaking to you. If you want, ask a few different people about how God spoke to them.
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Old 08-20-2003, 03:12 AM   #23
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religion is a fantasy
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Old 08-20-2003, 10:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
religion is a fantasy
Care to explain?
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Old 08-20-2003, 11:06 AM   #25
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Never mind nbcrusader-just ignore

Sadly it seems like insulting religion is one thing here that seems to go unnoticed. Just an observation on my part..Of course I could be wrong about that..

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but some things are better left unsaid, and maybe some people just don't realize it.

Oh well
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Old 08-22-2003, 10:49 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

Sadly it seems like insulting religion
i dont know how that can referred to as "insulting religion" unless you live in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan.
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Old 08-22-2003, 10:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Care to explain?
well this can get complicated but as you see even a harmless comment raises such hue and cry.

all i can say is . think logically. think universal. read history from all sources ( biased and unbiased). give up your prejudices if you have any.. think scientifically. read about human behavior and psychology. read about all the wars and why they happened.
dont just insist that what you know is correct without any valid proof or authentic source. dont ever accept proof by analogy.

I would have gone into why religion is a fantasy but I think I realised this isnt the right place.

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Old 08-22-2003, 11:30 AM   #28
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Normal

Saying "religion is a fantasy" insults me, and perhaps others. It's not a "harmless comment" to some people here. And I don't understand your reference to the Taliban or Afghanistan. There's no need to explain it either

And yes, I think your conclusion that this isn't the place is correct.
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Old 08-22-2003, 11:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan


i dont know how that can referred to as "insulting religion" unless you live in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan.
Hateful secular humanists are divisive.
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Old 08-22-2003, 05:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Hateful secular humanists are divisive.
Off the cuff comments invite ignorance.

A pitfall of any pursuit, spiritual or not.

Self-righteousness is bliss indeed.



*that wasn't meant to offend anyone in particular. Just an off the cuff comment really.
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