Is Palin failin' ? or OMG McCain wins with Palin !! pt. 2 - Page 38 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-09-2008, 02:39 PM   #556
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Perhaps it has changed the election - what angers me is not that she has changed the election(although that is frustrating to an Obama supporter), it is WHY she has changed the election. She has changed the election by giving speeches about being a hockey mom or a PTA mom(both of which she was for a far shorter time than she would like us to believe, from what I read) or a mother of five or other stuff like that. There's nothing wrong with any of that. But it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, zilch, zero, nada, with whether or not she is fit/qualified/prepared/whatever adjective you want to use, to be the second most powerful person in America, to govern a nation, to make foreign policy decisions. Nothing at all. The fact that she was a hockey mom or a pta mom or whatever IS NOT relevant to the discussion of whether or not she should be VP. But she, with the McCain campaign, is running with it, because people buy into it. And that's what pisses me off. Not that people genuinely side with her because they agree with her policies, but because people side with her for reasons that have NO place in the discussion, that have NO relevance to the debate, and that are only presented to the public because the McCain campaign believes that there are enough gullible people out there that will buy into it. That may seem harsh, but to me it is symbolic of everything that is wrong with American politics.


i agree. she's the first US Weekly candidate. an indictment of our cultural narcissism, "wow! she's just like me! and i want someone like me in the White House!"

after my stuttering disbelief at the egregiousness of this pick last week, i've felt a calm sort of resolution this week. it says to me that McCain, and many of the most vociferous conservatives in this poll, actually have no core. they are as cynical as anyone, if not more so. they're wielding "sexism!" in the way that they accused the Obama campaign of "playing the race card!" and if that works, then so be it.

this is a country that gave George W. Bush a second term.

maybe the (small) majority of Americans are as easily fooled as the rest of the world things we are. after all, some people believed the WMD hoo-ha.
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Old 09-09-2008, 02:40 PM   #557
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I can say the same of Obama. He made one speech at a DNC that people we impressed with...sound familiar?? He won a Senate seat pretty much uncontested. Palin took on her own party and won. I dont think there is anything on his resume that makes me feel that he is the best choice. He rode the excitement to his place just as Palin has. The big difference is shes #2 on the ticket, Obama's name is on the top. There continues to be a comparison of Obama to Palin. Thats not who he is running against.

so why did McCain pick the, in your view, female Obama? what does that say about McCain?
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:02 PM   #558
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It seems more than a little unfair to say that, "the American voting public isn't chock full of people who make good decisions." What are you basing that on? Is it possibly that fact that the guy you wanted did not win or proposition you wanted did not pass? If thats the case, it would seem a bit judgmental that your opinion is right and anyone that does not agree with you and vote that same way is not making a "good decision"

Yep, I am being judgmental. Quite seriously so. I honestly can't fathom how W got re-elected, and I can't understand why anyone would vote for any Republican candidate right now when our country is in the mess it's in. Seriously. I can't believe there's even a debate at this point. I look at the newspaper, and I say to my husband, I can't believe that people are still undecided.

So, yeah, I'm being judgmental. It's a personal opinion. No one has outlawed those YET.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:15 PM   #559
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so why did McCain pick the, in your view, female Obama? what does that say about McCain?
That he understands that the less experienced new guy (President in training) should be on the bottom of the ticket.

In 1952 Eisenhower, who had no experience problem to overcome, chose a 39 year old junior Senator from CA.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:33 PM   #560
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That he understands that the less experienced new guy (President in training) should be on the bottom of the ticket.

In 1952 Eisenhower, who had no experience problem to overcome, chose a 39 year old junior Senator from CA.


well this sidesteps the issue entirely.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:35 PM   #561
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it has turned out to be a short-term politically astute pick,

but i'd be worried about long-term damage to the ticket as a whole because she undercuts his entire pre-convention narrative, takes experience off the table, and has shifted the entire campaign from issues to personal narratives.

and i think we all agree, even if we are loathe to admit it, that this pick was only about politics, not about competence.

some might think it was necessary in order to raise McCain from the dead yet again, but what does this say about McCain and the "country first" narrative?
I think it is politics AND competence. Her experience with Energy is good for the tickets and it is a big issues in this election. She has a track record of success in this area. People cannot keep saying "mayor of a town of 9000" and ignore what she has done as Governor.

Another thing to consider is maybe the excitement is because people feel like they finally have someone to vote they feel represents who they are. Obama can bash the small town conservatives clinging to their guns and religion, but there are a lot of them and they now have a candidate that they can relate to. They have someone who could be from their town. Someone who shares their values.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:41 PM   #562
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ignore what she has done as Governor.
what has she done as governor that leads you to believe that she's had adequate preparation for the presidency?



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Another thing to consider is maybe the excitement is because people feel like they finally have someone to vote they feel represents who they are. Obama can bash the small town conservatives clinging to their guns and religion, but there are a lot of them and they now have a candidate that they can relate to. They have someone who could be from their town. Someone who shares their values.


this gets to exactly what i was talking about before -- our national narcissism. that someone who reflects "me!" is more important than whether or not they are a good choice. voting on these things like "values" -- insofar as "values" is used in political terms, which is less philosophy and more "do they agree with my gut emotional responses to select social issues" -- has turned politics into even more of a game. it's not even so much as a candidate selling himself to you and convincing you that he/she's the best person for the job. it's now a candidate trying to convince you that he or she is just like you!

guess what? none of these people are just like you. they're all egoists and ruthless careerists and they're all pretty smart and they love to see their names up in lights. politicians aren't you, and you aren't a politician, and that's probably a good thing.

they've turned voting into an act of self-expression, when it really should be much more practical than that. i've noticed -- and i'm *totally* guilty of this here -- but Americans tend to take politics very, very personally. some of that is because there actually is so much at stake. it is a matter of life and death as 4,000 dead soldiers in the sands of Iraq will tell you. but i think it's also because the process has turned labels like "liberal/conservative" or "Republican/Democrat" into lifestyles, or brands.

and if you think Obama was "bashing" small-town folk, you really need to look at the entire context of the quote. i can agree that the quote could be understood as being patronizing, but if you take a look at it in it's entirety, you'll see that he's offering compassion towards certain blocks of voters who have been economically decimated by Republican economic policies, and yet still continue to vote Republican even though it's totally against their economic self-interests to do so. it's a reflection of Howard Dean's "guns, god, and gays" from 2004. he, imho, totally fucked up when he used the word "cling," but i think he is absolutely right in this assessment of how working class whites have struggled with the death of the manufacturing/agricultural base in this country and in such uncertain times, religion and culture -- and there is absolutely a hunter/gun culture out there -- become life rafts of certainty.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:41 PM   #563
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so why did McCain pick the, in your view, female Obama? what does that say about McCain?
I said I could SAY that same, not that the ARE the same. She took on her own party. She has executive leadership. She has a record of accomplishments to stand on. I feel she'd be a better Presidential candidate than Obama. That why the McCain could die argument does not matter to me.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:47 PM   #564
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I said I could SAY that same, not that the ARE the same. She took on her own party. She has executive leadership. She has a record of accomplishments to stand on. I feel she'd be a better Presidential candidate than Obama. That why the McCain could die argument does not matter to me.


i understand that this is your opinion.

but this seems like an awfully low bar, particularly since we have no idea what she thinks about anything to do with foreign policy.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:56 PM   #565
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what has she done as governor that leads you to believe that she's had adequate preparation for the presidency?
.
Do you really want to compare the accomplishments of the Governor and the community organizer?

First, she took on the corrupt leadership in Alaska and won.

Under her leadership, Alaska invested $5 billion in state savings, overhauled education funding, and implemented the Senior Benefits Program that provides support for low-income older Alaskans. She created Alaska’s Petroleum Systems Integrity Office to provide oversight and maintenance of oil and gas equipment, facilities and infrastructure, and the Climate Change Subcabinet to prepare a climate change strategy for Alaska.

AL GORE WOULD BE PROUD, A REPUBLICAN ADDRESSING THE ENVIORNMENT

During her first legislative session, Governor Palin’s administration passed two major pieces of legislation - an overhaul of the state’s ethics laws and a competitive process to construct a gas pipeline.

2 IN HER 1st SESSION. WHAT HAS OBAMA DONE IN 4 YEARS?

Governor Palin is chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission, a multi-state government agency that promotes the conservation and efficient recovery of domestic oil and natural gas resources while protecting health, safety and the environment. She was recently named chair of the National Governors Association (NGA) Natural Resources Committee, which is charged with pursuing legislation to ensure state needs are considered as federal policy is formulated in the areas of agriculture, energy, environmental protection and natural resource management. Prior to being named to this position, she served as co-chair of this committee.

Prior to her election as governor, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla City Council and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla. During her tenure, she reduced property tax levels while increasing services and made Wasilla a business friendly environment, drawing in new industry.

She has served as chair of the Alaska Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska’s most valuable non-renewable resources: oil and gas. She was elected by her peers to serve as president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. In this role, she worked with local, state and federal officials to promote solutions to the needs of Alaska’s communities.

I think that is a pretty good record by any standard

By the way...on the Bridge to Nowhere.....you might find it interesting that Governor Palin was praised on the DEMOCRATIC web site in Alaska for her efforts killing the project.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:59 PM   #566
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i understand that this is your opinion.

but this seems like an awfully low bar, particularly since we have no idea what she thinks about anything to do with foreign policy.
Who sets the tickets agenda? That would be the Presidential candidate. That is John McCain. He has the Foreign Policy experience. Do I even need to say it is way more experience than Obama?
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:11 PM   #567
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Yep, I am being judgmental. Quite seriously so. I honestly can't fathom how W got re-elected, and I can't understand why anyone would vote for any Republican candidate right now when our country is in the mess it's in. Seriously. I can't believe there's even a debate at this point. I look at the newspaper, and I say to my husband, I can't believe that people are still undecided.

So, yeah, I'm being judgmental. It's a personal opinion. No one has outlawed those YET.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:14 PM   #568
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The Hunt for Sarah October
City slickers invade Wasilla
September 9, 2008

Democrats understand Sarah Palin is a formidable political force who has upset the Obama victory plan. The latest Washington Post/ABC Poll shows John McCain taking a 12-point lead over Barack Obama among white women, a reversal of Mr. Obama's eight-point lead last month.

It's no surprise, then, that Democrats have airdropped a mini-army of 30 lawyers, investigators and opposition researchers into Anchorage, the state capital Juneau and Mrs. Palin's hometown of Wasilla to dig into her record and background. My sources report the first wave arrived in Anchorage less than 24 hours after John McCain selected her on August 29.

The main area of interest to the Democratic SWAT team is Mrs. Palin's dismissal in July of her public safety commissioner. Mrs. Palin says he was fired for cause. Her critics claim he was fired because he wouldn't bend to pressure to get rid of a state trooper, Mike Wooten, who had been involved in a bitter divorce battle with Mrs. Palin's sister. Mr. Wooten is certainly a colorful character. He served a five-day suspension after the Palin family filed a complaint against him alleging he had threatened Mrs. Palin's father. They also accused him of using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson, drinking in his patrol car and illegally shooting a moose.

Mrs. Palin will return to Alaska for the first time in nearly two weeks on Wednesday night, when she is scheduled to arrive in Fairbanks. Local Republicans will hold a "Welcome Home" rally for her. You can bet some of the Democratic opposition research contingent will be in the audience taking notes. They'll be the ones arriving in rental cars and wearing fancy dress shoes from back east.

John Fund
Really seems like a waste of time when Dan Rather stands ready to "produce" any kind of document to state whatever you want.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:15 PM   #569
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Really seems like a waste of time when Dan Rather stands ready to "produce" any kind of document to say what you want.
Better yet go straight to the White House if you want that done.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:17 PM   #570
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Yep, I am being judgmental. Quite seriously so. I honestly can't fathom how W got re-elected, and I can't understand why anyone would vote for any Republican candidate right now when our country is in the mess it's in. Seriously. I can't believe there's even a debate at this point. I look at the newspaper, and I say to my husband, I can't believe that people are still undecided.

So, yeah, I'm being judgmental. It's a personal opinion. No one has outlawed those YET.
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And by the most recent polls, more have the opinion that McCain should be President. We'll see in Nov if all of us bad decision makers prevail.
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