Is Palin failin' ? or OMG McCain wins with Palin !! pt. 2 - Page 26 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-06-2008, 10:33 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
And so we have the implication, once again - last week I got it from Irvine, and now from you - that foreign posters really haven't a clue what they're talking about with regard to US politics.

Unfortunately, this seems to be coming more commonplace on FYM

Discussion of the Presidential election seems to be viewed as a private party

to which furrners are not invited and their views are not welcome

FYI, the British and Irish media report a lot on US politics and I, also, lived through the 80's.

(you could look into it

there should be some information available)


I usually do not even consider replying to these types of posts.



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or,
just go with the fym standard
go with your bias or leaning
and argue like your life depended on it
no where did I say anything about 'foreign posters', I don't believe I ever have.


So you recall that Ron Jr. is a liberal and had an estrangement from his father during the time Reagan was in office. That Ron Jr is a favorite and darling of the left? He may even be an atheist, which is fine. But his father was someone that did get along and work with the religious right.

And Michael, Reagan's adopted son has always been a conservative like his father and a religious man.

So of the two sons, which one is more credible to you for giving an opinion of whether or not their father would like Palin.

If you could share your reasoning with me, I might learn something.
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:59 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
I usually do not even consider replying to these types of posts.

no where did I say anything about 'foreign posters', I don't believe I ever have.
I may have been incorrect in intrepreting your post as implying that I don't know anything about US politics because I am a non-US person, but you surely know that I am considerably over thirty, so implying that I don't remember the '80's and ought to educate myself about the decade before expressing an opinion is rather silly.

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So you recall that Ron Jr. is a liberal and had an estrangement from his father during the time Reagan was in office. That Ron Jr is a favorite and darling of the left? He may even be an atheist, which is fine. But his father was someone that did get along and work with the religious right.

And Michael, Reagan's adopted son has always been a conservative like his father and a religious man.

So of the two sons, which one is more credible to you for giving an opinion of whether or not their father would like Palin.

If you could share your reasoning with me, I might learn something.
Hmmm. See, I think this is just too simplistic for words. Just because Ron jr happened to be to the left of his father, makes his point of view less valid than his step-brother, who was more right-wing? Sorry, I don't accept that.

Ron jr always had good relations with his parents, in spite of their political disagreements. That is not necessarily the case with Michael, from what I've read. *

But in answer to your question regarding which one is more credible for giving an opinion of whether or not their father would like Palin, in my view, quite honestly, it's Ron jr. He just has more political credibility full stop than the other guy.

And ulimately, I trust Ron jr's judgement more so than Michael's, because, frankly, I think Michael is band-wagon jumping tool, and Ron jr is a nuanced and intelligent person.

Who is the real Reagan, and not just by blood?

Edit: (* Actually I could be confusing Michael with Patti Reagan , now that I think of it)
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:05 PM   #378
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It's probably statements like the following that lead me to my belief that Michael Reagan is a tool:-

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When he said that children named Hezbollah, after the Lebanese group designated as a terrorist organization by the U.S., would eventually become terrorists themselves and, hence, "he would like to stick grenades in their rear ends and make them explode", the religion writer for the Austin American-Statesman characterized his words as "vile", "hateful" and "outrageous".[10] The liberal media watch dog group Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting characterized statements by Reagan as "death threats" when he criticized Mark Dice and other individuals who sent letters and DVDs to U.S. troops stationed in Iraq blaming the government for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Reagan said, for instance, "We ought to find the people who are doing this, take them out and shoot them. Really. You take them out, they are traitors to this country, and shoot them.... I'll pay for the bullets."
(source:wikipedia)
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:21 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
I may have been incorrect in intrepreting your post as implying that I don't know anything about US politics because I am a non-US person, but you surely know that I am considerably over thirty, so implying that I don't remember the '80's and ought to educate myself about the decade before expressing an opinion is rather silly.



Hmmm. See, I think this is just too simplistic for words. Just because Ron jr happened to be to the left of his father, makes his point of view less valid than his step-brother, who was more right-wing? Sorry, I don't accept that.

Ron jr always had good relations with his parents, in spite of their political disagreements. That is not necessarily the case with Michael, from what I've read. *

But in answer to your question regarding which one is more credible for giving an opinion of whether or not their father would like Palin, in my view, quite honestly, it's Ron jr. He just has more political credibility full stop than the other guy.

And ulimately, I trust Ron jr's judgement more so than Michael's, because, frankly, I think Michael is band-wagon jumping tool, and Ron jr is a nuanced and intelligent person.

Who is the real Reagan, and not just by blood?

Edit: (* Actually I could be confusing Michael with Patti Reagan , now that I think of it)
My initial response was a bit stronger than I prefer to write.

If you had asked me why I thought that instead of the short reply that is was bullshit,
I would have responded differently.

As for foreigners posting, it is one of the best things about fym.

and I believe most of the foreign posters have better reasoned responses than many of the casual U S posters.


The fact that I might get along better with Ron Jr than Michael
or that I also believe Ron may be his intellectual superior
does not lead me to conclude that his opinion is more correct.

Ronald Reagan Sr. was considered a tool by many.
and I could probably post some things he said that would look pretty silly, too.

Evil empire, I think he said trees cause air pollution.

Reagan electrified the base and had populace appeal.
Reagan attacked the media elites. (whatever that means)
Reagan preached against big government and for low taxes. (even on the rich)

I do see similarities with Palin
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:29 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by deep View Post

Reagan electrified the base and had populace appeal.
Reagan attacked the media elites. (whatever that means)
Reagan preached against big government and for low taxes. (even on the rich)

I do see similarities with Palin
I won't pretend to know everything about the Reagan era, I was young then, and a lot less politically aware than I am now, but wasn't he very secular, politically? Jr. made a comment that he would never have agreed with the religious right turn that the party has taken, and Palin seems to be a poster child for that segment of the party, so in that way, RR Jr's comments make sense.

Or am I misremembering what RR Sr was about?
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:38 PM   #381
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I won't pretend to know everything about the Reagan era, I was young then, and a lot less politically aware than I am now, but wasn't he very secular, politically? Jr. made a comment that he would never have agreed with the religious right turn that the party has taken, and Palin seems to be a poster child for that segment of the party, so in that way, RR Jr's comments make sense.

Or am I misremembering what RR Sr was about?
One could say he was somewhat secular while Governor of CA.

But to say he was secular as President is revisionist history,
he is responsible for the Religions Right.
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:41 PM   #382
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I am 23, so I was only alive for Reagen's second term and that was from birth to age 4, so clearly I wasn't able to observe him or form any opinions about him while he was in office. So what I am about to say is based only what I have been able so observe of him after the fact.

The biggest difference I see between Reagan and Palin is this: Reagan - and I see this characteristic quite a bit in Mitt Romney now as well - seemed to be a bit idealistic and pie-in-the-sky about America sometimes - the whole, "shining city on a hill", "what makes America the greatest nation on Earth is the American people", thing. When I hear that, I say, "no, it's not the American people, it's the fact that America is the wealthiest country in the world combined with the freedoms and rights guaranteed to all its citizens in the constitution on which it was founded that makes it the greatest nation on Earth, and even then it's subjective."

Point being, Palin doesn't strike me as a person who would believe in or publicly state that kind of fairy-tale pie-in-the-sky idealism. I find myself having a difficult time articulating this...she comes off as sort of, a more 'no bullshit' kind of person. But that 'no bullshit' mentality leads to a lack of charisma, which Reagan had a lot of(former actor and all). Like I said, I'm not articulating this as well as I want to. Maybe someone else understands what I'm trying to say and can articulate it better.

This is all personality stuff though. As far as pure politics are concerned, I see Palin being considerably further right than Reagan.

So, given that she has faaaaaaaar less charisma than Reagan and given that she doesn't seem to be nearly as moderate as Reagan was on some issues(and not nearly as knowledgeable either), I don't see why anyone would say they're so similar.
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:47 PM   #383
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I am 23, so I was only alive for Reagen's second term and that was from birth to age 4,

So, given that she has faaaaaaaar less charisma than Reagan and given that she doesn't seem to be nearly as moderate as Reagan was on some issues(and not nearly as knowledgeable either), I don't see why anyone would say they're so similar.

As far as pure politics are concerned, I see Palin being considerably further right than Reagan.
It is kind of interesting to hear what people think
or feel, the impressions they have

so do a little research (google or any other search engine )

I'd like you to come back and give me some examples of a few of Reagan's moderate programs or positions ?
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:56 PM   #384
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One could say he was somewhat secular while Governor of CA.

But to say he was secular as President is revisionist history,
he is responsible for the Religions Right.
I thought it was more that Falwell and the Moral Majority co-opted Reagan. The article by Jr said that he didn't even attend church regularly.

The whole discussion is moot, though. I don't think either son can claim to know with any certainty what his thoughts would have been. Interestingly though, he did say that his mother thought the choice of Palin was suspect.
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:58 PM   #385
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I'd like you to come back and give me some examples of a few of Reagan's moderate programs or positions ?
Good point. "Moderate" Reagan is revisionist history. His policies were most certainly conservative, and the judges he appointed were meant to be conservative, even if some of them didn't obey (although Scalia more than makes up for it).
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:03 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
It is kind of interesting to hear what people think
or feel, the impressions they have

so do a little research (google or any other search engine )

I'd like you to come back and give me some examples of a few of Reagan's moderate programs or positions ?
I wasn't saying that I think Reagan was was so much of moderate, that's just how far right I think Palin is. From what I read, Reagan was moderate as governor of California, and then not a moderate anymore as president. One could argue whether that change was genuine or not, much like Romney's move further to the right, or McCain's move further to the right during their presidential campaigns. In any event, as president, Reagan was right-wing, and Palin seems even more right-wing. In comparison to Palin, Reagan seems more moderate.

But again, I didn't know what politics was when Reagan was president, so maybe my interpretation is incorrect.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:05 AM   #387
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The whole discussion is moot, though. I don't think either son can claim to know with any certainty what his thoughts would have been.
Interestingly though, he did say that his mother thought the choice of Palin was suspect.
That is more about McCain
and it is true Reagan repulicans, right wing conservatives are not crazy about moderate McCain.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:30 AM   #388
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Good point. "Moderate" Reagan is revisionist history. His policies were most certainly conservative, and the judges he appointed were meant to be conservative, even if some of them didn't obey (although Scalia more than makes up for it).


Robert Bork - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

none of McCain's justices that would be approved

would be as bad as Reagan's pick
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:00 AM   #389
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Robert Bork - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

none of McCain's justices that would be approved

would be as bad as Reagan's pick
It doesn't matter if they're "bad".

A court dominated by conservatives would be a bad thing, imo.

As it is right now, of the conservative wing, Roberts and Alito are under 60, Thomas is exactly 60, and Scalia is 72. The only one of these that seems to have any possibility of not being on the SCOTUS any time soon is Scalia, and even then, he seems in pretty good health and in no hurry to step down.

Of the liberal wing, Breyer is 70, Ginsburg is 75, Stevens is 88, and Souter is 68. Ginsberg is 75, has had cancer, and there has been rumor here and there for a while about impending retirement for her. Souter has been rumored to be thinking about retirement despite being only 68. The chances of Stevens, at 88, of being on the SCOTUS by the end of even Obama or McCain's first term are close to nil. I've read that the only reason he hasn't retired yet is because he doesn't want his replacement to be a GWB nomination. And let's not forget that Kennedy, a right-leaning centrist who is often the court's swing vote, is 72.

The point here is that it is highly likely that at least one or two of them will be replaced during the next presidency(especially if it's an eight-year presidency), and it's not too much of a stretch to think that more than that could be replaced. If Obama gets elected, then by way of his nominations, the court will probably end up being more or less the way it is now(unless Kennedy is replaced in which case the court could take a small step left), but if McCain gets elected, we could be looking at dominantly conservative court a few years down the line.

McCain's replacements won't have to be "bad" like this Bork guy to make the SCOTUS a dominantly conservative court - all they'll have to be is conservative.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:02 AM   #390
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That is more about McCain
and it is true Reagan repulicans, right wing conservatives are not crazy about moderate McCain.
Not with him, but wouldn't they at least be pleased with his self-described far right pick?
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