Is Palin failin' ? or OMG McCain wins with Palin !! pt. 2 - Page 16 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-04-2008, 08:08 PM   #226
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From what little I heard of Palin's speech, I did not like it.

My enthusiasm for Palin is waning fast at this point. It seems to me she is yet another neo-con masquerading as a conservative. I have always seen the spreading of democracy by war as inconsistent with conservative values, this is a big issue with me.

Guess I must be a flip-flopper.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:09 PM   #227
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How dare you alter your opinion in light of new evidence.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:15 PM   #228
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^ Well, indeed.

And this is what particularly concerns me, as reported on antiwar.com:-


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Last night, vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin gave a speech at the Republican National Convention which served as the first major address by a candidate who only a week ago many Americans had never even heard of. And while much of the speech was dedicated to introducing herself and her family to the American public (particularly her son Track who is being deployed to Iraq next week), it also provided the first serious glimpse at what turned out to be an unadulteratedly neoconservative position on foreign policy: a year old video of her declaring the Iraq War a task from God notwithstanding.

Twice in her speech, she declared victory in Iraq to be “within sight”, and praised Senator McCain for having the “sheer guts” to defend the unpopular war though many predicted it would cost him voter support. She likewise lauded McCain’s war experience and chastised her Democrat opponents for their lack of military service. She also claimed that McCain had been granted special wisdom and compassion from his service and detention “by the grace of God”.

Beyond Iraq, the Alaska Governor appeared to see threats everywhere, cautioning the crowd against “dangerous foreign powers” who don’t have America’s best interest at heart. She accused Russia of “wanting to control a vital pipeline in the Caucasus,” presumably referring to the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, though the recent war with Georgia did not leave Russia in control of any territory near this pipeline. She also said Russia was “using energy as a weapon,” in a segment of her speech focused on energy independence.

She also promised “to confront the threat that Iran might seek to cut off nearly a fifth of world energy supplies,” though Iran has only threatened to do this if they are attacked. Presumably also referring to Iran, she spoke of “terrorist states” which are “seeking nuclear weapons without delay,” and condemned Democratic presidential nominee Barrack Obama for saying he would meet with them without preconditions.


Sarah Palin: The New Face of Neocon Foreign Policy? | News From Antiwar.com
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:18 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Harry Vest View Post
Ya, and over 10 million for McCain. Give it up guys. Your squirming is becoming way too obvious. You're scared to death of this woman - as you ought to be.
Your grasp of politics is amusing...
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:00 PM   #230
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Your grasp of politics is amusing...
And yours seems to be just plain stupid.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:02 PM   #231
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But that shrill, whiny voice? Hillary would give orders with authority.
Give me "shrill" over "the cackle" anyday!!!
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:13 PM   #232
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I'm not scared of her. She us COMPLETELY, UTTERLY UNIMPRESSIVE to me! What scares me is that there are actually people who think she should be next-in-line to the presidency, and who are blissfully unaware of how much stretching-of-the-truth and even lying was going on in the speech she gave as well as speeches given about her. That's what scares me.

I am confident the way she was presented at the convention last night is not going to win over a lot of independents.

You say you support Obama. You really haven't sounded like it recently.
I do support Obama. That's OBAMA. Having said that I cannot stand Harry Reid or Nancy Pulosi, or the left leaning so called "pundits" who are attacking her on all the wrong fronts. These people should smarten up and quick. Why don't all the Democrats just listen to who they nominated and start acting like him - a true gentlemen. I cannot help but think you guys are GOING TO BLOW IT YET AGAIN!!! My God, in 2004 you should have been able to make mince-meat out of Bush/Cheney yet failed to do so. If you don't stop attacking Sarah Palin on non-issues like her kid's pregnancy, troopergate (the fuckin guy used a tazer on a 10 year old for cripes sake - who the hell is going to sympathize with him) and stick to the issues like health care, abortion, foriegn policy, Iraq etc. etc. then I'm afraid it's going to be McCain/Palin 2008...and more than likely Palin/? in 2012. This is your last chance Democrats. Watch your guy (Obama) and bloody well act accordingly!!!
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:19 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Harry Vest View Post
Give me "shrill" over "the cackle" anyday!!!
I'm not surprised that you would identify more with shrill.

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Originally Posted by Harry Vest View Post
I do support Obama. That's OBAMA. Having said that I cannot stand Harry Reid or Nancy Pulosi, or the left leaning so called "pundits" who are attacking her on all the wrong fronts. These people should smarten up and quick. Why don't all the Democrats just listen to who they nominated and start acting like him - a true gentlemen. I cannot help but think you guys are GOING TO BLOW IT YET AGAIN!!! My God, in 2004 you should have been able to make mince-meat out of Bush/Cheney yet failed to do so. If you don't stop attacking Sarah Palin on non-issues like her kid's pregnancy, troopergate (the fuckin guy used a tazer on a 10 year old for cripes sake - who the hell is going to sympathize with him) and stick to the issues like health care, abortion, foriegn policy, Iraq etc. etc. then I'm afraid it's going to be McCain/Palin 2008...and more than likely Palin/? in 2012. This is your last chance Democrats. Watch your guy (Obama) and bloody well act accordingly!!!
Um, isn't sticking to the issues and playing nice, while being attacked, attacked, attacked over and over again a large part of what probably lost the Dems the election in '04?
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:20 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Harry Vest View Post
I do support Obama. That's OBAMA. Having said that I cannot stand Harry Reid or Nancy Pulosi, or the left leaning so called "pundits" who are attacking her on all the wrong fronts. These people should smarten up and quick. Why don't all the Democrats just listen to who they nominated and start acting like him - a true gentlemen. I cannot help but think you guys are GOING TO BLOW IT YET AGAIN!!! My God, in 2004 you should have been able to make mince-meat out of Bush/Cheney yet failed to do so. If you don't stop attacking Sarah Palin on non-issues like her kid's pregnancy, troopergate (the fuckin guy used a tazer on a 10 year old for cripes sake - who the hell is going to sympathize with him) and stick to the issues like health care, abortion, foriegn policy, Iraq etc. etc. then I'm afraid it's going to be McCain/Palin 2008...and more than likely Palin/? in 2012. This is your last chance Democrats. Watch your guy (Obama) and bloody well act accordingly!!!
Yep. Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:22 PM   #235
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stick to the issues
Pot, meet kettle.

You appear to have confused the membership of this forum with people who are actually in a position to influence a significant number of voters.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:27 PM   #236
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Um, isn't sticking to the issues and playing nice, while being attacked, attacked, attacked over and over again a large part of what probably lost the Dems the election in '04?
I take your point. But that was then, and this is now.

You - and I mean 'you' collectively - put up with the godamn crap back then, and it's too f****ing late to do anything about it now.

You guys attack on the FAMILY stuff now, if you're not careful, you end up losing another one. You end up being the bad guys, 'cos you're attacking a working woman with a family, and worse still, you're bringing her family into it.

Headache in a Suitcase made a very good point recently when he said this (in the context of a discussion about why the Dems are threatening to bring criminal charges against Bush now, but chickened out of it a few years ago):-


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there's always something you can do... get up on your soapbox and shout about it. it is such an important issue that the fear of a GOP filibuster should not be a hinder, unless the democratic party is filled with a bunch of pansy asses. what's wrong with standing up for something you believe in, even if you know full well it won't accomplish anything other than be annoying?
http://forum.interference.com/f199/u...ml#post5425910
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:37 PM   #237
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I take your point. But that was then, and this is now.

You - and I mean 'you' collectively - put up with the godamn crap back then, and it's too f****ing late to do anything about it now.

You guys attack on the FAMILY stuff now, if you're not careful, you end up losing another one. You end up being the bad guys, 'cos you're attacking a working woman with a family, and worse still, you're bringing her family into it.
I definitely agree with a lot of what you said. The political climate has changed somewhat since '00 and '04, so I don't think a full-scale, Republican-type personal attack on either Palin or McCain is a good idea. However, I do think that members of the party need to keep the many reasons why both Palin and McCain are not up to the task front and center. A tip from the Republican playbook - repeat anything enough times, and people will believe it. If the Dems can turn real, valid reasons into constantly used talking points, all the better to get it out there for the digestion of the American public. Also, two other points. I think that Obama should stay above the fray himself. Let his party/people do any potential dirty work for him; and I don't think it's necessary to attack Palin on family issues. In fact, I've seen very little of the mainstream media doing that. Unless I've been missing something, they seem to be reporting on the teen pregnancy, but not attacking about it. In any case, there are plenty of other weaknesses she has that they can call attention to.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:42 PM   #238
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And yours seems to be just plain stupid.
Really? Harry, I at least try and back up my stances. And when I look at something like how much money McCain and Obama take in, I look at the fact that one is having a convention and should be taking in more than then other canidate... Why don't you?

I've asked you to back up your stances over and over to no avail, so have many others...

No one is squirming in here, if they are why don't you try and actually discuss those posts, not the ones that are valid... Just try it for once.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:44 PM   #239
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I definitely agree with a lot of what you said. The political climate has changed somewhat since '00 and '04, so I don't think a full-scale, Republican-type personal attack on either Palin or McCain is a good idea. However, I do think that members of the party need to keep the many reasons why both Palin and McCain are not up to the task front and center. A tip from the Republican playbook - repeat anything enough times, and people will believe it. If the Dems can turn real, valid reasons into constantly used talking points, all the better to get it out there for the digestion of the American public. Also, two other points. I think that Obama should stay above the fray himself. Let his party/people do any potential dirty work for him; and I don't think it's necessary to attack Palin on family issues. In fact, I've seen very little of the mainstream media doing that. Unless I've been missing something, they seem to be reporting on the teen pregnancy, but not attacking about it. In any case, there are plenty of other weaknesses she has that they can call attention to.
Good points. I do agree with you about Obama staying above it, which I think he is (quite correctly) doing - so far, at least.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:44 PM   #240
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You guys attack on the FAMILY stuff now
I keep hearing this, but please show me anyone who is ATTACKING the family?
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