Is our President for real? - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-07-2003, 12:01 PM   #76
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 08:12 AM
Quote:
3. DOES NOT REFUSE presribing contraceptives to single women, he may recommend that they not take them, but if the insist, he will give them to them.
4. He will not head the commitee, rather he will be just 1 of 11 panel members. Shouldn't the panel at least represent those that believe in a more conservative medical practice?

6. He would serve on an advisory commitee, which has no final say in policy.
This eases some of my anxieties, somewhat...


Quote:
See what happens when we take a report from a pro-choice group as fact, without even bothering to validate it's claims
But we can take this for fact without any bias?

Quote:
"What NOW and other pro-abortion advocates really believe is that even if a candidate is well-qualified and a good doctor, they can't be an outspoken Christian and get appointed to the FDA," Connor said.
Come on. "Pro-abortion", I think the use of this term instead of pro-choice shows just a little bit of bias in this information.

The point is just because you found information that favors your views, you can't take it for fact either.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 03-07-2003, 12:08 PM   #77
Acrobat
 
Zooropa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 421
Local Time: 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This eases some of my anxieties, somewhat...




But we can take this for fact without any bias?



Come on. "Pro-abortion", I think the use of this term instead of pro-choice shows just a little bit of bias in this information.

The point is just because you found information that favors your views, you can't take it for fact either.
Any self-intereted association (Pro-Life/Chioce) is going to be guilty of bias.

No matter how you want to say it pro-choice is pro-abortion when you refer to legislation.

I'm fairly comfortable with the fact that everything I posted is factual. If anyone can find information to the contrary, be my guest. The thread began with a host of accusations that all were preceded by "it has been reported". There is no factual evidence to back up the claims made in the original post. All the information I posted w/ the exeption of one, come from mainstream media outlets, not activist groups. So yes, I do take it as fact.

__________________

__________________
Zooropa is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 12:11 PM   #78
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 06:12 AM
Both labels (pro-abortion/pro-choice) are inherently false. Many who believe abortion should be allowed would not have one themselves. And many who call themselves "pro-choice" do not believe in individual choice as an across the board principle - just for abortion.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 12:42 PM   #79
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Normal I can't believe I'm doing research during spring break

I'm not convinced, Zooropa. Although it was hard to find what I would consider to be unbiased sources, I played with Google for a little while and came up with these links:

http://www.courier-journal.com/local...002s292212.htm

NOTEWORTHY: He has also condemned the birth control pill, used by an estimated 10 million American women, saying it has provided a ''convenient way for young people to be sexually active outside of marriage.''

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...361521,00.html

NOTEWORTHY: [He] recommends specific Scripture readings and prayers for such ailments as headaches and premenstrual syndrome...In his private practice, two sources familiar with it say, Hager refuses to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women.

http://www.slaughter.house.gov/NR/ex...2D0CE972F2.htm

NOTEWORTHY: "As a former health-care professional I am appalled by Dr. Hager's practice to refuse his female patients the right to make informed medical decisions about their own health," stated [Rep. Louise] Slaughter [D-NY, a microbiologist with a master's degree in public health]. "Refusing give women access to birth control is not only unthinkable, it is unethical."

http://www.arhp.org/advocacy/legislativenews101602.cfm

NOTEWORTHY: Dr. Hager is a conservative ob/gyn who has been known for relying on his religious beliefs to make medical decisions, such as only prescribing birth control to married women, and recommending prayers for headaches and premenstrual syndrome. Dr. Hager has strong ties to the Christian Medical Association and the anti-abortion group Focus on the Family. He is author of the book "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now". ARHP [Association of Reproductive Health Professionals] urges its members to oppose the appointment of Dr. Hager.

(Looks like his colleagues don't hold him in very high esteem.)

But incidentally, according to this article, Hager is a done deal anyway:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/tex...36_ndig26.html
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 12:47 PM   #80
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 10:12 AM
"If you think abortion is the worst thing you can imagine, then you should support contraception even more."
--Frances Kissling, President of Catholics for Free Choice

(Just a quote I found that I liked--thought it fit nicely in this thread.)
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 01:04 PM   #81
Acrobat
 
Zooropa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 421
Local Time: 09:12 AM
Re: I can't believe I'm doing research during spring break

Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
I'm not convinced, Zooropa. Although it was hard to find what I would consider to be unbiased sources, I played with Google for a little while and came up with these links:

http://www.courier-journal.com/local...002s292212.htm

NOTEWORTHY: He has also condemned the birth control pill, used by an estimated 10 million American women, saying it has provided a ''convenient way for young people to be sexually active outside of marriage.''

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...361521,00.html

NOTEWORTHY: [He] recommends specific Scripture readings and prayers for such ailments as headaches and premenstrual syndrome...In his private practice, two sources familiar with it say, Hager refuses to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women.

http://www.slaughter.house.gov/NR/ex...2D0CE972F2.htm

NOTEWORTHY: "As a former health-care professional I am appalled by Dr. Hager's practice to refuse his female patients the right to make informed medical decisions about their own health," stated [Rep. Louise] Slaughter [D-NY, a microbiologist with a master's degree in public health]. "Refusing give women access to birth control is not only unthinkable, it is unethical."

http://www.arhp.org/advocacy/legislativenews101602.cfm

NOTEWORTHY: Dr. Hager is a conservative ob/gyn who has been known for relying on his religious beliefs to make medical decisions, such as only prescribing birth control to married women, and recommending prayers for headaches and premenstrual syndrome. Dr. Hager has strong ties to the Christian Medical Association and the anti-abortion group Focus on the Family. He is author of the book "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now". ARHP [Association of Reproductive Health Professionals] urges its members to oppose the appointment of Dr. Hager.

(Looks like his colleagues don't hold him in very high esteem.)

But incidentally, according to this article, Hager is a done deal anyway:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/tex...36_ndig26.html
1. He is hardly alone in his sentiments regarding the pill. Again, he would be just 1 out of 11. His beliefs reflect a large portion of the population. Should these beliefs be excluded?
2. This goes along with his prayer/spritual healing philosophy. Note the vagueness though of "sources". But, It's fair to say that "sources" quoted in my post are equally vague.
3. In your quote from Rep. Louise Slaughter, you neglected to mention that she prefaces the arguement with "If this is true". Therefore, her arguement is not based on fact, rather on assumption. We all know what happens when we assume right??? (ASS-U-ME)
4. Your last source is an advocacy group, and their for in herently biased. They vehently oppsosed spiritual healing, which in fact has shown to be effective in treating mild to moderate disorders.
5. AHHHH, so what if he's not going to be appointed, I'm enjoying the debate anyhow.
__________________
Zooropa is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 01:08 PM   #82
Acrobat
 
Zooropa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 421
Local Time: 09:12 AM

Hmmmm, just thinking, so many people go out of their way to avoid Genetically modified foods, and hormone enhanced dairy protects due to medical studies that show links to cancer and other serious health afflictions, yet don't seem to object to many of these same practices being used in contraception and other medications. Just thinking out loud on this...................
__________________
Zooropa is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 01:13 PM   #83
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
oliveu2cm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Live from Boston
Posts: 8,334
Local Time: 10:12 AM
hellllooooooooooooooo!

Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora

NOTEWORTHY: [He] recommends specific Scripture readings and prayers for such ailments as headaches and premenstrual syndrome...In his private practice, two sources familiar with it say, Hager refuses to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women.

I just can't get over this one!!!







and bush wants him in POWER?!
__________________
oliveu2cm is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 01:25 PM   #84
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Re: Re: I can't believe I'm doing research during spring break

Quote:
Originally posted by Zooropa


4. Your last source is an advocacy group, and their for in herently biased. They vehently oppsosed spiritual healing, which in fact has shown to be effective in treating mild to moderate disorders.
1.) Where does it say that they vehemently oppose spiritual healing?

2.) Even if it is an advocacy group, it's a group of reproductive health care professionals. Doesn't that tell you something about how this man is viewed by his peers?
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 01:39 PM   #85
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zooropa
Hmmmm, just thinking, so many people go out of their way to avoid Genetically modified foods, and hormone enhanced dairy protects due to medical studies that show links to cancer and other serious health afflictions, yet don't seem to object to many of these same practices being used in contraception and other medications. Just thinking out loud on this...................

Some of these therapies are indeed a bit risky. But they beat the heck out of the alternatives. I don't want the government to make too many decisions for me.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 01:44 PM   #86
New Yorker
 
Scarletwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside it's Amerika
Posts: 2,746
Local Time: 09:12 AM
What about the studies showing use of low-dose progesterone, birth control pills that reduces the incidence of breast cancer, cervical cancer, and uterian cancer. Birth control pills have the opposite effect of hormone replacement therapy. They reduce the amount of estrogen in the body, that is typically increased during pregnancy and at a times throughout a women's cycle.

This appointment is just in line with Bush's other appointment. He put a logger in charge of our forests, an oil exec wanting to drill in Alaska, a corp. exec in charge of the EPA ( ok a little exaggurated but close).

edited:

I have nothing against Christian Scientist, but aren't his methods very close to parents relying on prayer to cure cancer stricken children?
__________________
Scarletwine is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 06:55 PM   #87
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Discoteque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hotter 'n' hell Texas: Dallas
Posts: 3,568
Local Time: 09:12 AM
as a conservative, God fearing, pro-life American woman, I tend to agree with Zooropa's comments on much of this, but I'll go further:

Sex outside of marriage brings:
- unwanted pregnancy which may lead to abortion
- a myriad of STDs, many of which have no cure, and can even kill you
- lots of guilt and shame
- plumetting self-esteem for some when a sexual relationship ends
- tendency to "compare" your mate with those who came before
- lack of trust between mates if they have both had sex before marriage

What about Abstinence? (remember that one?) It really is the only "fix" for these. Sex wasn't created to be the thing that its become. It should not be a mere right of passage, but a priviledge and a gift.

Quote:
to believe that a person should wait for marraige to have sex is not a "bent" persepective. There are many who feel that this is appropriate. Nor is it wrong to try and discourage it, if at all possible.
I never said I outright support Bush's decision. Read my posts, quite the contrary, I don't like religion dictating policy, however to me, it's the lesser of two evils, I rather have him, than an uber-liberal who promotes abortion, radical & unproven scientific methods etc.
My apologies if you found this appalling.
I certainly didn't, tho I'm sure some folks think my comments probably are. No apologies on this one.
__________________
Discoteque is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 07:54 PM   #88
New Yorker
 
Scarletwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside it's Amerika
Posts: 2,746
Local Time: 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Discoteque
as a conservative, God fearing, pro-life American woman, I tend to agree with Zooropa's comments on much of this, but I'll go further:

What about Abstinence? (remember that one?) It really is the only "fix" for these. Sex wasn't created to be the thing that its become. It should not be a mere right of passage, but a priviledge and a gift.

I certainly didn't, tho I'm sure some folks think my comments probably are. No apologies on this one.
Give me a break. We aren't talking about the youth pastor of your church. This is a national position that must take in all walks of life, religions, and no religion. This is a f**king health position. While the church has wonderful and useful teaching for life, that has (unfortunitely) little to do with real life. Real life statistics show:
1: the more sex education a person gets - the later the first act of intercourse

2: the more sex education given - the less teenage pregnancy

3: the more sex education given the lower the teenage STD rate

I don't deny the effectiveness of abstinence, but statistic have shown the above for over 20 years. I was lucky to grow up in a bible belt that believed in sex ed.
__________________
Scarletwine is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 08:04 PM   #89
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine


Give me a break. We aren't talking about the youth pastor of your church. This is a national position that must take in all walks of life, religions, and no religion. This is a f**king health position.
Scarletwine--I understand that you vehemently disagree with Discoteque's position, but please keep it civil.

That said, abstinence-only sex ed. is, in my opinion, a nice thought--but nothing more. Abstinence should be taught first, but information about and access to contraceptives and condoms should also be given.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 03-07-2003, 08:19 PM   #90
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,290
Local Time: 09:12 AM
The medical community is split wrt the links between breast cancer and birth control pills. Large numbers, if not the majority of practicing physicians find the links to be statistically insignificant.

Once again, I say, it is up to each individual to make their own choice after weighing all the risks. Surely, there are some (headaches, nausea, weight gain or loss, breast tenderness, potentially cancer links), but a lot of it is also fearmongering, and the line must be drawn someplace. Zooropa, remember when you're out there demonizing the pill, that many women who may be reading it depend on this medication daily and for them, it may have changed their lives infinitely for the better, risks and all.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com