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Old 12-02-2004, 08:31 AM   #46
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Sorry, but Jesus being "the way" to you might not mean the same thing to others.

Is Jesus still the way if he decides to extend his grace towards a non-Christian as he did throughout the four Gospels? I believe he is.

Your WAY may not be God's way.
What is the more reasonable route to take? One which bases an interpretation on God's Word (our "known") or one which is based on possible, uncommunicated actions of God (our "unknown")?

If someone come to you and asks "How do I get to heaven?", do we respond according to the consistent statements in the Bible, or do we leave the door open to whatever path you want to take?

Now, God may extend His grace in other ways. But that is outside the revelation given to us. Thus, do we provide the answer given, or the answer that may or may not be true?
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:33 AM   #47
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Originally posted by pwmartin
A more pertinent question: is salvation only to be experienced at the end? Or may we perhaps have a foretaste now? When is salvation begun?
Salvation begins when one places their faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:30-31). Eternal life is now, not when we die. Abiding in Christ is now, not later.

The "carrot on the stick" is not a grand vision of eternal life, but a life with God, indwelled by the Holy Spirit, today.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:36 AM   #48
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What bothers me is people who think that as long as they say they accept Christ as their personal savior they are automatically saved no matter what they do in their lives, and anyone else who may be living a better life but has not officially said the little statement on the back of the pamphlett is going to hell. I guess this comes from know so many hypocritical Southern Baptists in my life, unfortunately including my brother, as well as other acquiatences and neighbors. These "Christians" are some of the most sinning, judgemental, greedy, even cruel people I have ever seen, yet they seem to believe they are 'forgiven'. I don't believe it works that way, I think if God judges us He will take into consideration the way people lived, especially after declaring themselves 'saved.' I don't mean this to insult every 'born again Christian' I'm sure there are plenty to live by it, and I know a few of those too, but too many of the other type. I can't believe a just God would allow such hypocrites into Heaven and send a good hearted generous person with fewer sins into the pits of hell. Guess we'll all have to wait and see.
We all stand before the Judgement seat. But, no matter how good or bad I am, I still will have sin before God. The only thing that removes all of the sin is God's grace through the blood of Jesus.

I take this seriously as a Sunday school teacher. Teachers of the Word are held to a higher standard in God's eye.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:39 AM   #49
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I'm also glad U2kitten brought that up. The way I see it, if my destiny for heaven and eternity is measured only by my good works, I'm screwed. I don't deserve eternity by any righteous things I've done, because there are far more unrighteous things I have done, whether or not I'm even aware of them.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:48 AM   #50
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Like I said before, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I believe Jesus is the only way simply because that's what the Bible says. My question is how you can possibly interpret those verses to many ANYTHING other than as God being the only way. Not one person here has directly told me what they think those verses mean.

Also, I know not everyone who claims to be a christian will go to Heaven. The Bible says he will spit luke-warm christians out of his mouth. He clearly doesn't want believers following him half-heartedly and he says he won't accept it. Don't think everyone in the church is a christian because there's alot who most definitely are not.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:51 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


What is the more reasonable route to take? One which bases an interpretation on God's Word (our "known") or one which is based on possible, uncommunicated actions of God (our "unknown")?

If someone come to you and asks "How do I get to heaven?", do we respond according to the consistent statements in the Bible, or do we leave the door open to whatever path you want to take?

Now, God may extend His grace in other ways. But that is outside the revelation given to us. Thus, do we provide the answer given, or the answer that may or may not be true?
Jesus is still the way in my senario. Its just not the way you or others may believe.

I fail to see how my meaning is not as communicated as yours is. I am interpreting it as based on God's word just as you may be.

You may not agree with my interpretation, and I might not agree with yours. I have faith that mine is right, you have faith that yours is right. My faith VS your faith. Guess what.....I bet God sees that we are both equally faithful....and I am counting on that grace to be extended towards me, right or wrong, as are you.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:52 AM   #52
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I'm also glad U2kitten brought that up. The way I see it, if my destiny for heaven and eternity is measured only by my good works, I'm screwed. I don't deserve eternity by any righteous things I've done, because there are far more unrighteous things I have done, whether or not I'm even aware of them.
You and me both.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:53 AM   #53
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Originally posted by shart1780
Also, I know not everyone who claims to be a christian will go to Heaven. The Bible says he will spit luke-warm christians out of his mouth. He clearly doesn't want believers following him half-heartedly and he says he won't accept it. Don't think everyone in the church is a christian because there's alot who most definitely are not.
There are plenty of people who act like the hypocrites that Jesus spoke out against in the New Testament. People who want to be seen doing good things, not because they love God, but because they love attention and popularity.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:56 AM   #54
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


You are missing the exclusive claims made by Christ Himself.
If Anitram is out worshipping sea dragons and winds up at the "gate" and Jesus is there....didn't her path lead her to Jesus? Isn't he still the one there deciding who gets in to the Father?
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:04 AM   #55
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


If Anitram is out worshipping sea dragons and winds up at the "gate" and Jesus is there....didn't her path lead her to Jesus? Isn't he still the one there deciding who gets in to the Father?
Well, if you mean that every path leads to God's judgement seat then you're right. Getting into Heaven is another isue though.

Also, in the Bible it states that there are many false Gods who are considered evil in God's eyes, as are the people who worship them. What false God's would you think these are?
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:06 AM   #56
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
If Anitram is out worshipping sea dragons and winds up at the "gate" and Jesus is there....didn't her path lead her to Jesus?
I don't know what to say. If denying Jesus' claims is what it takes to make you a believer, I don't see the faith in that.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:17 AM   #57
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nbcrusader:

You have a nice laundry list of quotations there, but they are taken entirely from the New Testament. In addition, one might argue that you are taking certain quotes out of the greater biblical context. The truth is, as one preacher put it, God "is much more concerned with things other than your dirty little soul." In Christ, God is all about redeeming ALL of creation...which groans for redemption. THe salvation that Christ brings has a distinctly communal aspect that many Christians are guilty of individualizing.

Secondly...to the people who claim not to believe in Christ, but nevertheless seem to include yourself in the saved: Where are you getting your concept of heaven? Have you just made it up? It is God of the Bible who speaks of heaven, and who is going there, etc. Are you borrowing that concept and then creating your own milieu for talking about it? It seems that if we have an understanding of heaven primarily from the words of Jesus (or Mohammed, for another example) then we are obligated to listen to all which that tradition then says about heaven/salvation, etc.

Claiming to speak about the details of heaven without truly listening to the voices who originally told us about it is like claiming to be an expert on Canada, for example, without ever reading anything about Canadian history or Canadian politics or knowing the Canadian Constitution, but basing all your ideas on watching "Strange Brew" and drinking Labatt's Blue.

Make sense?

And I'm not saying that heaven is like Canada...it's just an example.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:24 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I fail to see how my meaning is not as communicated as yours is. I am interpreting it as based on God's word just as you may be.
I do not discount your interpretation as it clearly reflects the nature and power of God. However, we have specific commands provided by God and I'm not sure how we get around thoses statements.

Jesus said "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14


Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
You may not agree with my interpretation, and I might not agree with yours. I have faith that mine is right, you have faith that yours is right. My faith VS your faith. Guess what.....I bet God sees that we are both equally faithful....and I am counting on that grace to be extended towards me, right or wrong, as are you.
Between you and me, I believe we both have received God's grace. Please do not interpret my comments as suggesting that you are not saved.

We both are responsible for giving an answer for the hope we have. I know we both grow from these discussions.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:29 AM   #59
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Originally posted by pwmartin
nbcrusader:

You have a nice laundry list of quotations there, but they are taken entirely from the New Testament. In addition, one might argue that you are taking certain quotes out of the greater biblical context. The truth is, as one preacher put it, God "is much more concerned with things other than your dirty little soul." In Christ, God is all about redeeming ALL of creation...which groans for redemption. THe salvation that Christ brings has a distinctly communal aspect that many Christians are guilty of individualizing.
I am well aware of the danger of taking specific quotes our of the greater biblical context. My point is to show that when Scripture support Scripture, and you have multiple (I have almost 100 under all the catagories I listed) pointing to the same answer, I would hope that I have gotten past taking things out of context and supporting a clear message from Scripture.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:30 AM   #60
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Jesus is the only way to God and to eternal life. Everyone who has posted anything on this or has any questions, doubts or what ever needs to read "The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel. He was an athiest who was an investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune. He hated the idea of God and thought Christianity was a bunch of crap. His wife became a Christian and he decided to use his investigative skills to prove that the path she was on was wrong. He didn't want her to give her life over to something that was so bogus. He set out to prove her wrong and talked to experts about every aspect of Christ's life — his teachings, death, ressurrection and many other things. He couldn't prove Christianity wrong! He's now a pastor for a church in Chicago and has written other books, including "The Case for Faith," which explores other aspects of Christianity.

I could sit here and argue a bunch of philisophical or factoral aspects of Christianity, (and would love to do so by e-mail coemgen17@hotmail.com) but the biggest thing I can share with anyone is how Christ has helped me in my own life. My best argument for him is my relationship with him. He has helped me through dark, desperate times in my life and continues to do so today. I feel his love when everything else makes me lonely. I've seen many prayers answered in my life - specific ones too. His love is real. It's real to me and it's real to Bono. The reason it's real is because we've both accepted Christ as our saviors, asked for forgiveness of our sins and turned our lives over to him and know that he died for you. That's all you have to do! Anyone reading this can experience the same love and he already loves everyone reading this more than anyone on Earth can. He's just waiting for you to answer back in faith. The evidence is the Bible, which has never been proven wrong.
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