Is Jesus the only way to Heaven? How do you interpret these scriptures?

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nbcrusader said:


We all stand before the Judgement seat. But, no matter how good or bad I am, I still will have sin before God. The only thing that removes all of the sin is God's grace through the blood of Jesus.

I take this seriously as a Sunday school teacher. Teachers of the Word are held to a higher standard in God's eye.

But don't you think it's wrong for a person who gets saved to not bother to curb his/her behavior, thinking, oh well, I'm in no matter what? I have known people who would actually plan to sin ahead of time, and then when questioned say, oh well I'll just tell the Lord I was weak next Sunday! I can't believe salvation was ever intended to be that way. While we all sin and no one is righteous, what I'm saying is that it's hard for me to swallow that a 'saved' person who makes no effort to be good, doing whatever they want, hurting people and being greedy and hateful is going to be judged ahead of a person who was never officially dunked but spent a much more virtuous life. It's like some I know have abandoned all conscious and don't even try to do the right thing, declaring only that they are 'forgiven' and "God is their only judge.' To me a hypocrite or a backslider can't be okay, can't just get by with it. I also have a problem with deathbed confessions of lifelong murderers, sure it's too easy to live the life you want and recant on your deathbed. It's not fair to those who have tried hard to do the right thing in this life.
 
shart1780 said:
Also, I know not everyone who claims to be a christian will go to Heaven. The Bible says he will spit luke-warm christians out of his mouth. He clearly doesn't want believers following him half-heartedly and he says he won't accept it. Don't think everyone in the church is a christian because there's alot who most definitely are not.
I'm hoping that U2kitten reads this. Not all proclaimed Christians love their neighbors as themselves, and there's quite a few who don't take God's message seriously.
 
U2Kitten said:
But don't you think it's wrong for a person who gets saved to not bother to curb his/her behavior, thinking, oh well, I'm in no matter what? I have known people who would actually plan to sin ahead of time, and then when questioned say, oh well I'll just tell the Lord I was weak next Sunday! I can't believe salvation was ever intended to be that way. While we all sin and no one is righteous, what I'm saying is that it's hard for me to swallow that a 'saved' person who makes no effort to be good, doing whatever they want, hurting people and being greedy and hateful is going to be judged ahead of a person who was never officially dunked but spent a much more virtuous life. It's like some I know have abandoned all conscious and don't even try to do the right thing, declaring only that they are 'forgiven' and "God is their only judge.' To me a hypocrite or a backslider can't be okay, can't just get by with it. I also have a problem with deathbed confessions of lifelong murderers, sure it's too easy to live the life you want and recant on your deathbed. It's not fair to those who have tried hard to do the right thing in this life.

Part of salvation, or being born again, is that there IS an inner change. One cannot simply mouth the words, then plan on engaging in sin. God sees the difference and knows those who truly believe (it is not for us to say).

However, salvation does not make us perfect. All believers will continue to sin.

It is not a matter of what is fair in human terms. God says we cannot earn grace. It is freely given. And we shouldn't be comparing ourselves and our own "virtuous" lives with others.
 
There are a lot of self-proclaimed "Christians" out there who don't allow God into their lives. They don't allow Jesus and his message to transform them. There are plenty of us who allow our transformation to begin, but it's an ongoing transformation, and God is not done working with us yet.
 
Another Anne Lamott-ism that I like:

"God loves you just the way you are, and God loves you too much to let you stay that way."
 
Another good book is "Why Christian?" by Douglas John Hall. It's not quite as easy to read as coemgen's suggestion, but it's very helpful, persuasive. Anybody read it?
 
nbcrusader said:
Between you and me, I believe we both have received God's grace. Please do not interpret my comments as suggesting that you are not saved.

We both are responsible for giving an answer for the hope we have. I know we both grow from these discussions.

I do not misinterpret your comments, and believe me I am really looking forward to hanging with you here or in a better place. I know you are not judging me, and I feel we are brothers.

Peace
 
U2Kitten said:


But don't you think it's wrong for a person who gets saved to not bother to curb his/her behavior, thinking, oh well, I'm in no matter what? I have known people who would actually plan to sin ahead of time, and then when questioned say, oh well I'll just tell the Lord I was weak next Sunday! I can't believe salvation was ever intended to be that way. While we all sin and no one is righteous, what I'm saying is that it's hard for me to swallow that a 'saved' person who makes no effort to be good, doing whatever they want, hurting people and being greedy and hateful is going to be judged ahead of a person who was never officially dunked but spent a much more virtuous life. It's like some I know have abandoned all conscious and don't even try to do the right thing, declaring only that they are 'forgiven' and "God is their only judge.' To me a hypocrite or a backslider can't be okay, can't just get by with it. I also have a problem with deathbed confessions of lifelong murderers, sure it's too easy to live the life you want and recant on your deathbed. It's not fair to those who have tried hard to do the right thing in this life.

Well one needs to keep in mind that Jesus when speaking always said REPENT and believe. You can't have one without the other. And while we are not saved through works we have from James "faith without works is dead". Part of having faith making that inner change and giving every effort to live as God would have us live. Good works is should be the result of faith. "You shall know a tree by its fruit" and all.

Where this becomes difficult is that everyone lives different lives. A person who was abused as a child, grew up in abject poverty and was born with a difficult personality in a great many cases will not be as pleasant a person as one born with a pleasant disposition in a nice rich, loving home. And people are at different stages of development, change does not happen immediately. A nasty person who is a Christian may have been a much worse person if they were not. That is why we cannot judge. So much of us, even our minds, personalities are external to the soul. A good soul may be obscured by a dirty window.

And if repentance is genuine (again something we cannot know) then it is accepted. Christ forgave the thief on the cross, which is all the more remarkable on that the Greek word lestes which is usually translated as thief, in a 1st Century Judean context is more properly translated as terrorist. The Judean countryside was littered with political dissidents and religious fanatics who robbed and/or murdered anyone who came along (you can see this reality in the story of the Good Samaritan). But I don't deny that this is hard. But again we must remember Christ's words, he spoke to this directly in the parable of the Vineyard, where those who started working in the last hour of the day received the same wage as those who started at dawn. Human conceptions of fairness have nothing to do with God. It's not fair that the murder who honestly recants on his death bed is saved, but a great many things in this life aren't fair, ones we accept every day without a whimper. It's not fair that I sit here at a computer warm, statisfied wealthy while millions of people starve to death having nothing simply by the fact of where and when and to whom they were born. Life does not conform to our judgements of fairness, and if it did I often wonder how much people would really enjoy that. But we have faith that God is just, and though to us it doesn't seem fair, charity requires that we rejoice for every soul that is saved. And really, unless you have lived that other person's life right down to their personality no one can say that they would have done differently.

And really when you think about it, eternal damnation is something too terrible to imagine, that to wish it upon anyone... I can imagine myself that angry... I have been on many occasions but when I really think about it, to do so isn't right. That is not loving your neighbor. But it is very hard.
 
Thanks to all of you for answering my post. I thought it should be that way. Some people I know have a lot to learn, or they may just be surprised on judgement day.
 
The thing is why should they wait until judgement day? Eternity, where ever you spend it, doesn't begin when yo die. Eternity with God can begin NOW while you're still alive here on Earth. It's as simple as calling out to God, knowing he died for your sins, asking him for forgiveness of those sins and then accepting him as Lord. Then the rest of your life, as long as you stay focused on him and his word, will be the greatest adventure ever! I'll be honest guys. My wife and I have NO money right now. None. We have rent and a number of other bills and our account is overdrawn. We just applied for food stamps too. I know that if I didn't have God, I'd be freaking out now. But I'm not. He's in control and I've given my life to him. He's going to lead us out of this situation. I know it! He's never let us down. He sticks to his promises, which are everywhere in the Bible. That's the best testimony I can give you guys — this peace I feel now despite the situation my wife, and child (soon to be two) are in. God is good!
 
coemgen said:
I'll be honest guys. My wife and I have NO money right now. None. We have rent and a number of other bills and our account is overdrawn. We just applied for food stamps too. I know that if I didn't have God, I'd be freaking out now. But I'm not. He's in control and I've given my life to him. He's going to lead us out of this situation. I know it! He's never let us down. He sticks to his promises, which are everywhere in the Bible. That's the best testimony I can give you guys — this peace I feel now despite the situation my wife, and child (soon to be two) are in. God is good!

i'm terribly sorry for your situation. i'm sure that you, your wife and your children deserve more than you currently have to live with.

but you've expressed a sentiment that i think is destructive and inhibiting...it's something that seems to be inherent in most religions and it's something that i despise.

regardless, i hope your situation improves.
 
coemgen said:
The thing is why should they wait until judgement day? Eternity, where ever you spend it, doesn't begin when yo die. Eternity with God can begin NOW while you're still alive here on Earth. It's as simple as calling out to God, knowing he died for your sins, asking him for forgiveness of those sins and then accepting him as Lord. Then the rest of your life, as long as you stay focused on him and his word, will be the greatest adventure ever! I'll be honest guys. My wife and I have NO money right now. None. We have rent and a number of other bills and our account is overdrawn. We just applied for food stamps too. I know that if I didn't have God, I'd be freaking out now. But I'm not. He's in control and I've given my life to him. He's going to lead us out of this situation. I know it! He's never let us down. He sticks to his promises, which are everywhere in the Bible. That's the best testimony I can give you guys — this peace I feel now despite the situation my wife, and child (soon to be two) are in. God is good!

They shouldn't wait, but I don't see them repenting because they don't think they have to. They think they are the best Christians in the world and have a right to judge everyone :tsk: :(

I'm sorry about your monetary situation, mine sucks too. I feel pretty hopeless sometimes. :( :hug:
 
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To get back to the main topic of discussion about Christ being the only way, consider this — Christianity is the only religion where God became a man. (This excludes Judaism, which is still waiting on its savior). He did this to understand our perspective and go through what we go through — what a God! Most other religions, those that believe in a God, believe it was a man who became God or was enlightened. How much sense does that make? That would take much more faith for me to believe that.
What always gets me is the links between the OT and the NT.
There are numerous prophecies about "the Messiah" in the old testament that are fulfilled in the new testament. Take Psalm 22:16-18 for example. It talks about Christ crucifixion hundreds of years before crucifixion was invented! Then look at the book of Isaiah. There are 66 chapters in Isaiah. The first 39 deal with the OT law. The last 27 deal with the Christ. Well, there are also 66 books in the Bible - the first 39, or the OT, deal with the law, while the last 27, or the NT, deal with the Christ!!
That proves that he is the Christ that Jews are waiting for, and there's many other prophecies that were fulfilled. If you think Islam is the way, did you know Christ is mentioned something like 96 times in the Koran? Mohammed, its main prophet, is only mentioned about 30 times!

I don't mean to beat anyone over the head with stuff like this, I'm just excited to share it. If anyone wants to discuss more, hit me at coemgen17@hotmail.com
 
nbcrusader said:


This is not a matter of interpreting one or two verses. There are dozens and dozens of verses that all point to one conclusion. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The clearest statements are found in:

John 14:6
Acts 4:11-12
Acts 16:30-31
1 Timothy 2:5
1 John 2:23
1 John 5:11-12
Luke 10:16
Luke 12:8-9
John 3:18
John 3:36
John 8:24

We can go on from there with verses that support

1. Jesus is the only source of salvation for the world
2. Jesus is the Father's choice
3. Rejection of Jesus is rejection of the Father
4. Rejection of Jesus brings judgment; belief in Jesus rescues from wrath
5. Jesus is the only one who provides forgiveness from sin
6. There are no other alternatives for salvation

Ok I've read most of those, but I haven't seen one yet that says you have to know Jesus. No one's clarifed exactly what these mean. Jesus has already died for our sins, so the door is open. Do we have to know him by name to get in?

I don't think the child born in Africa who never heard of Christ is denying him. Christ has already fulfilled his gift of grace, so why is this child doesn't get to partake in this gift because we didn't spread the word, because of geography. This is the part I'm trying to understand. Now I know I've simplified it a little too much by saying the door is open come on in, but really none of these versus say exactly what it is everyone needs to do to go through Jesus.
 
coemgen said:
I'll be honest guys. My wife and I have NO money right now. None. We have rent and a number of other bills and our account is overdrawn. We just applied for food stamps too. I know that if I didn't have God, I'd be freaking out now. But I'm not. He's in control and I've given my life to him. He's going to lead us out of this situation. I know it! He's never let us down. He sticks to his promises, which are everywhere in the Bible. That's the best testimony I can give you guys — this peace I feel now despite the situation my wife, and child (soon to be two) are in. God is good!
Keep hanging tough, coemgen. I'm glad you have so much hope in your situation.
 
I think the way to Heaven is knowing what is truly important and truly good in this world and doing your best to let that guide your life and your choices. Of course the teachings of Jesus and what Jesus represents for can be helpful for many people in determining that.

That's my completely simplistic way of looking at it, as of this minute :wink:
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
I don't think the child born in Africa who never heard of Christ is denying him. Christ has already fulfilled his gift of grace, so why is this child doesn't get to partake in this gift because we didn't spread the word, because of geography. This is the part I'm trying to understand. Now I know I've simplified it a little too much by saying the door is open come on in, but really none of these versus say exactly what it is everyone needs to do to go through Jesus.

Why was Jesus' closing words to the disciples "and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth" if other than to go an tell everyone about Jesus.
 
Personally, I think that the villages who have never been preached the gospel is much like the people who lived before Christ.
 
Good call Macfistowannabe. (And thanks for the encouragement.) Plus, maybe God's word hasn't reached everyone, but he still can through creation and other ways. An aboriginie who hasn't heard the Gospel can still cry out in his heart toward God with the wonder of the beauty found on the Earth. He may not know Christ, but I'm sure God will work where he's at. I don't have any firm, backed up answer to that question, but I know God likes to work with us where we're at.

Also, for those of you are interested Christianity without all the crap, visit www.relevantmagazine.com. It's a magazine/publishing company that talks about faith issues and pop culture. They've been called "U2 Christians," and had Bono on the cover recently and have a book on their faith called "Walk On."
Good stuff.
 
coemgen said:
Plus, maybe God's word hasn't reached everyone, but he still can through creation and other ways. An aboriginie who hasn't heard the Gospel can still cry out in his heart toward God with the wonder of the beauty found on the Earth. He may not know Christ, but I'm sure God will work where he's at. I don't have any firm, backed up answer to that question, but I know God likes to work with us where we're at.


Ok I understand this, so then here's my next question what if this aboriginie is living a righteous life in another religion? Because that's the religion of the land. It's all he knows. Now granted it's not a religion that calls for killing, casting judgement etc. He's a righteous man, he's really dove into his heart and nothing in his heart tells him this religion is wrong. In all aspects with the exception that the name he speaks isn't Jesus he's as a good a Christian if not better than most. What happens?

Here's where I'm getting at I think the power of God transends religion and it trandsends a name. God's son has made his sacrifice. If a man is living a life as close as he can to the example set by Jesus without even knowing Jesus how is it that a just God will deny him heaven but take your neighbor?
 
Hey BonoVoxSupastar, that's a great question. It's tough to try to figure out all of this stuff because, well, we're not God, ya know? I consider myself a Chrsistian who has read a lot, but I'm still learning. I do know that God is a just and fair God, and when judgement day comes, we will accept our judgement as fair and perfect. God will do that with you, me and the aboriginie. If he hasn't heard of Christ, I don't know how God deals with that. If he has it's a different story. It's not up to me to judge, it's up to God. I know also that God is after us all, he wants us for eternity! He gives us all chances to know him, it's up to us to do our part, which is simply accepting his son, his sacrifice and forgiveness after we ask for it. While we should be concerned about the aboriginie as much as the next guy, where are you with it all?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Here's where I'm getting at I think the power of God transends religion and it trandsends a name. God's son has made his sacrifice. If a man is living a life as close as he can to the example set by Jesus without even knowing Jesus how is it that a just God will deny him heaven but take your neighbor?

I would bet that he gets taken while someone sitting in the pew on Sunday doing nothing for his brother finds out something different.
 
Dreadsox said:
I would bet that he gets taken while someone sitting in the pew on Sunday doing nothing for his brother finds out something different.

Are you suggesting that there is a works component to salvation?
 
i have sort of an interesting spin to put on this thread...unless it was already spun and i missed it. anyway.

what do the christians here think about someone who has left the church and/or renounced christianity? the pastor of the church i used to attend believes that once you accept christ - that's it, you're saved not matter what may come but i don't know if that's the common assessment. any opinions on this?

ps. i am one such person :wink:
 
I feel that you have to take charge of your faith, and you can't just stop believing. When you decide to screw over your Christianity altogether, it's as if you've never believed in the first place.
 
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