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Old 12-04-2004, 01:42 PM   #136
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Excellent post!
Thank you.
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Old 12-04-2004, 01:43 PM   #137
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Interesting, YOU accuse others here who do not see two options of not using their mind. I as a teacher, believe the person who sees more than two options, more than black and white, ect as having used their mind. I would say the student who sees only two options as being limited in their thinking.



So because YOU did not mention, it is not worthy of being a part of the discussion. There are references int he Bible of people becoming Christian and doing something with their faith rather than sitting idly by. Maybe it is YOU who are not open to looking at iother roads in the intersection.



Then clearly YOU are picking and choosing what parts of the Bible are relevant to YOU and your point of view. Very limiting.



If YOU are directing a statement at someone, try using something other than YOU.

What a awful think to say about a person. Who do you think YOU are to make a statement like that? Get off the seat of judgement. Who are YOU to decide what Anitram, or any other poster feels about god. YOU may not agree with them, but that does not make them any less corect in their FAITH than YOU are in yours.

If YOU are not here to have a discussion but to prove YOU are right on a matter of FAITH why post?
i'd like to start by pointing out, that if a person doesn't want someone directing posts at someone else by using the word you, maybe they shouldn't do it themselves.

okay, now that that's out of the way...i think i'm ready to discuss these things. so i'll ask a question: what other ways exist at this intersection? obviously there are those that would disagree with me on this issue, so instead of attacking me this time, let's address the issue. i don't believe that it is possible to have any other conclusions than Christ was the messiah, as he claimed, or he was a madman. others disagree. please explain the other alternatives.

next point...good works. good works are not how one gets into heaven. salvation is through faith alone, grace alone, and scripture alone. however, this doesn't mean that works don't have their place. faith in Christ truly changes an individual, and one of the ways this can be seen is through their works. so, faith in Christ saves, and then produces a willing spirit. works in and of themself, work nothing towards salvation. they are fantastic in terms of what they work towards the good of the world, but without a belief in Christ, they work nothing towards a person's salvation.

again, others here would accuse me of picking and choosing parts of the bible to fit my own understanding. fine, i'll accept their opinion, but i would again ask that they would provide instances of this, and show me my error, and how i can correct it. (maybe someone could show me some versus, and explain them in their greater context, and prove me wrong)

i have also been asked how i can make inferences on anyone else's thoughts on God. my answer: i cannot know what is in their hearts. it is not my place to judge. i cannot know if anyone else is going to be saved or not. however, i think that is well within my intellectual capacity to read someone else's statements on said matter and judge their opinion based on what they put out in a public forum, just as others judge me based on what i write.

finally, i think that if we are not allowed to point out what we find to be flaws in other people's logic, in a matter where it would seem that we are all professing to be seeking an ultimate truth, then we will have a very poor discussion in deed. if an opinion is necessarily right, and not to be questioned simply becaus a person has that opinion, how a can a person ever advance past their current intellectual state?
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Old 12-04-2004, 01:52 PM   #138
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
i'd like to start by pointing out, that if a person doesn't want someone directing posts at someone else by using the word you, maybe they shouldn't do it themselves.
generally when we QUOTE someone we know who you is....

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Old 12-04-2004, 01:57 PM   #139
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right...so, any thoughts on how good works would get a person into heaven? because it was pointed out that i was operating on a limited biblical viewpoint if i failed to recognize this. please explain this to me.
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Old 12-04-2004, 01:58 PM   #140
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1. have you ever met anyone in the course of your life who would say "i am such and such" and not mean themselves?

2. if i were to say to you "i am john smith" would you take it to mean that i was saying that my belief system was john smith and my past actions were john smith, and everything about me was john smith, but in fact i did not mean that my own personal self was john smith?

3. to take things from your point of view would be to ignore the entire rest of Christ's words, and in fact the rest of the Bible altogether.

4. and it is not for us to interperate in some willy nilly fashion, making fit with our every whim.

1. Yes

2. Exactly, depending on what your definition of "I" is

3. No

4. Don´t dare to dis´ me. It´s not fashionable to live the Bible this way. It´s not fashionable to interprete God´s words as a call for action to live a better life. On the contrary, this is quite unfashionable in our willy nilly postmodern society.
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:05 PM   #141
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


1. Yes

2. Exactly, depending on what your definition of "I" is

3. No

4. Don´t dare to dis´ me. It´s not fashionable to live the Bible this way. It´s not fashionable to interprete God´s words as a call for action to live a better life. On the contrary, this is quite unfashionable in our willy nilly postmodern society.
1. explain, use examples, i would like to see how this is done.

2.apparently i've lived a sheltered life. what are the various definitions of I?

3.i think that this is a long discussion here. i think it would be interesting to see how we each see your interpretation of Christ's words lining up with the rest of Christ's teachings, and then the rest of the Bible.

4.this was not a comment directed towards you personally, nor was i intending to "dis'" you. i was simply stating that if we are to make claims on Christ's words like this, then they have to line up with the rest of scriputure. otherwise, all that is accomplished is that a few verses have been interpreted without regards to the context in which they are found, and i believe this sort of interpretation to be dangerous.
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:05 PM   #142
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
right...so, any thoughts on how good works would get a person into heaven? because it was pointed out that i was operating on a limited biblical viewpoint if i failed to recognize this. please explain this to me.
Honestly, not interested. I am tuned out based on the treatment of posters who disagree with you.

EDITED: I have been in a lousy mood all day....maybe when I have adjusted my lousy attitude.
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:10 PM   #143
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so other's actions can be discounted because they do not line up with your notions of what is right or wrong.

i don't believe that a discussion can be had, in which the various discussers are not allowed to debate the merits of others ideas (whether or not they deem other's ideas to be correct or incorrect). if we cannot do this, then we everyone is left with their own unchallenged opinion, and no progress forward can be made.
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:48 PM   #144
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Telling someone their their vision of heaven does not include God, IS NOT debating. It is insulting.
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:49 PM   #145
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thank you HipHop. your interpretation is very inspiring. everyone's were in different ways, and helped me greatly in making my own decisions about how i feel. i'm only 16 and i am very torn about alot of these kinds of things because what i feel in my heart and my interpretations conflict with what the church or my older brother says is true. it shouldnt have, but it made me very doubtful and i had alot of questions about my own relashonship with God. and i am getting closer all the time. i also closley related to se7en's posts i thought. so thanks

" God is interested in whats in people's hearts"- Bono said that and that is what i'd like to believe.
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:53 PM   #146
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Two seeds from the same package are planted. Both seeds produce plants to the excitement of the gardener. Both seeds receive the water, sunlight, and nutrients necessary to be productive, because the Gardner loves both plants. One plant, sits there in the garden doing nothing. The other bears fruit and fulfills its purpose in the garden. The fruitfull plant will produce more seeds for the gardener, while the other produces nothing for today, tomorrow, or the future.
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:54 PM   #147
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Telling someone their their vision of heaven does not include God, IS NOT debating. It is insulting.
i don't think i was insulting her. it was a response to a comment that was made in which i was accused of wishing someone else's damnation. (the comment was something along the lines of not wanting her in my kingdom). my post was intended to point out not that God was rejecting her, but instead that she had rejected God.
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Old 12-04-2004, 03:02 PM   #148
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Two seeds from the same package are planted. Both seeds produce plants to the excitement of the gardener. Both seeds receive the water, sunlight, and nutrients necessary to be productive, because the Gardner loves both plants. One plant, sits there in the garden doing nothing. The other bears fruit and fulfills its purpose in the garden. The fruitfull plant will produce more seeds for the gardner, while the other produces nothing for today, tomorrow, or the future.
alright! now some fruitful discussion.

okay, i first have to ask what do the original two seeds represent? if they represent those that have faith in Christ by the grace of God then you are right. there are numerous parables where Christ explains that we have an obligation as His followers to serve others.

however, if these two seeds are simply people who are not followers of Christ, things get a little more touchy. of course it is still honorable to perform good works, but they are only so in the eyes of men. the bible tells us that "we have all become like one who is unclean, and all our rightous deeds are like a polluted garment." isaiah 64:6.
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Old 12-04-2004, 03:02 PM   #149
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
she had rejected God.
That's appalling and truly bothers me to the core of my soul. I've been a member here for nearly 4 years and I've never had something so incredibly cruel and untrue said to me. Thanks a lot, have a Merry Christmas.

See you around, Dread. Tell your wife she's found herself one of the good ones.
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Old 12-04-2004, 03:07 PM   #150
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Originally posted by anitram


That's appalling and truly bothers me to the core of my soul. I've been a member here for nearly 4 years and I've never had something so incredibly cruel and untrue said to me. Thanks a lot, have a Merry Christmas.
like i said before, i cannot know your heart, but from your posts, it does not seem like your views exactly represent one who accepts God. you may acknowledge God, maybe bring some biblical teachings in to your own belief system, but from comments that you made within this thread, i was lead to believe that you disagree with more of the Bible than you agree with. Happy New Year.
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