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Old 12-14-2004, 05:40 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


I can appreciate that, and agree wholeheartedly that it is an evasive means of discourse. it's actually frustrating because the more vocal Christian members of this forum are now silent. Why? Are you all stumped? Have I pushed you back against a wall? I didn't mean to, I just want some answers. Answers which are never forthcoming in this forum and certainly never in life when discussions take place. I am not alone with the perceived hyprocisy I'm viewing in this religion. And it's never addressed. It's disheartening. Especially when the silence will soon enough end and on a different topic I'll be 'gently' reminded that I am on the burning path to hell and my future and past is littered with sin. There's certainly a lot of compassion in Christianity, there's a lot of acceptance and open loving arms. But it's a rather selective process.

Call me a sinner all you like. one thing I will never be is unaccepting and passively encourage exclusion of any fellow person in anything in my life. Let us all love and live how we choose. I dont care if Christianity wallows in it's hatred. Unfortunately and tragically, many homosexual folk do. It's a fucking shame they are made to feel as they do - persecuted.
Where the hell did that come from? In relation to my response no less.
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Old 12-14-2004, 05:47 AM   #122
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Something that comes up here a lot actually. Sometimes it is just a means to which to change the subject because the person can't defend the comments and other times it stands very true.

Why do you think their is reluctance to criticize other religions? Possibly because most people in here who have a religious background it's in the Judeo-Christian? Or is that it's ultimately hypocritical to point out the flaws in another religion when you haven't focused on the flaws of your own first? Or is it being a victim of the PC world we live in? But then you just go back to playing victim again.

It's probably a little bit all three, but it's definately not a way to debate this subject.
Already addressed the thing as to WHY it happens because that wasn't a question that I posed anyway.

There you go with the victim bit again. Do yourself a favor BVS, go and find someone who is a victim and you can help them through it ok? As for me, yes, yes it is a heavy load to carry, my cross to bear, woe is me but with much help from the good people at the Trinity Broadcasting Network prayerline, I think I will make it.
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:29 AM   #123
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Okay, can I make a point that it is impossible to win; either you are religious and it is your own bias that means that you are trying to look weak and play the victim or you are not neccesarily religious and just hold views that are not right so you play the victim for some reason it all boils down to some general victim mentality. Well I for one disagree - I have every damn right to point out the bleeding obvious hypocracy that comes with religion, the way that people with poltical agendas twist belief to fit their ideology whatever it may be regardless of how contradictory it may be to other passages; homosexuality is bad because of passages x, y and z vs. homosexuality is good because God is love. The truly annoying insistence that I am fucked whatever I do when I engage in some real face to face conversation with true believers or the even more annoying hip religiousity sucking in the gulliable fools. In the end it all boils down to people worshiping and killing for tribal God images because we are a bunch of insane apes who resort to belief for questions that we cannot answer.

If I could talk to the religions as religions I would start by saying this;

Christianity: Fix up the house and resolve issues of paedophiles and gays before trying to save others souls.

Islam: Move out of the 7th Century and abandon expansion, conquest and violence.
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:34 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic


There you go with the victim bit again. Do yourself a favor BVS, go and find someone who is a victim and you can help them through it ok? As for me, yes, yes it is a heavy load to carry, my cross to bear, woe is me but with much help from the good people at the Trinity Broadcasting Network prayerline, I think I will make it.
This response was not to you. You asked on behalf of someone who couldn't answer the question at hand rather they decided to play victim and asked why their religion is being pointed at and no one else's. So I'm not sure where that is coming from.
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Old 12-14-2004, 07:04 AM   #125
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Okay, can I make a point that it is impossible to win; either you are religious and it is your own bias that means that you are trying to look weak and play the victim or you are not neccesarily religious and just hold views that are not right so you play the victim for some reason it all boils down to some general victim mentality. Well I for one disagree - I have every damn right to point out the bleeding obvious hypocracy that comes with religion, the way that people with poltical agendas twist belief to fit their ideology whatever it may be regardless of how contradictory it may be to other passages; homosexuality is bad because of passages x, y and z vs. homosexuality is good because God is love. The truly annoying insistence that I am fucked whatever I do when I engage in some real face to face conversation with true believers or the even more annoying hip religiousity sucking in the gulliable fools. In the end it all boils down to people worshiping and killing for tribal God images because we are a bunch of insane apes who resort to belief for questions that we cannot answer.

If I could talk to the religions as religions I would start by saying this;

Christianity: Fix up the house and resolve issues of paedophiles and gays before trying to save others souls.

Islam: Move out of the 7th Century and abandon expansion, conquest and violence.

as much as i do belive in the soul, the strage and mysterious but nevertheless real sense that we are all connected both to each other and something larger ... these days, with elements of Islam on crack and a hugely perverted form of Hyper-Capitalist Christianity in the White House, i ditto all that you have said.

seems to me that -- politically speaking -- the most moral people out there, those that don't try to bend god for their agendas, are the atheists among us.
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Old 12-14-2004, 03:27 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic


Where the hell did that come from? In relation to my response no less.
What are you getting defensive at? It wasn't directed at you. And certainly not specifically, so hold your horses dear.

So...Can NO one answer this? I'm trying really hard not to get annoyed here, but it's as frustrating as fuck when I just want to know how in the name of all things Christian this occurs and the only response is shameful silence, accusations of Christian bashing or irrelevant comparisons to other faiths (irrelevant in terms of this being as straight forward as possible - how something so revered can be so faulty). We're not talking about other religions. We're not bashing here. I want to know how it's Christian. I want to know if I am completely misunderstanding the belief and thought that we need to love all of Gods men, and accept and help each other. I thought it was His will or something. Why does it become selective? And please if anyone does ever feel like answering, dont quote some text from the Bible which vaguely mentions homosexuality as a sin. I want to know what people think, not some cut n paste from the Bible.

This is incredibly disappointing. And please no more insinuations I am just being anti Christianity. I could wrote pages on the benefits of all religions and Christianity specifically.
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:00 PM   #127
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To reply to both Angela and BVS,

I repsonded as I did to both of you because you quoted my post therefore I thought it was directed at me.

I was not getting defensive with you Angela. I was with BVS however because BVS implied in another post I was a victim or had a victim mentality or something of the like. I wasn't really even getting defensive it was more my being impatient and annoyed. And no offense to BVS because I think you know that regardless of what is said I enjoy going back and forth on all the discussions I have been involved in thus far here on the forum. (I think you know that BVS?)

To Angela....

So your question is what exactly? I am a bit unclear as to what you are on about. I read something about how in the name of all things Christian does this occur. Does what occurr? Maybe I have missed some of your postings? At any rate if you want to ask me directly feel free and I will be happy to give you an answer if I can.

Carrie
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:05 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Something that comes up here a lot actually. Sometimes it is just a means to which to change the subject because the person can't defend the comments and other times it stands very true.

Why do you think their is reluctance to criticize other religions? Possibly because most people in here who have a religious background it's in the Judeo-Christian? Or is that it's ultimately hypocritical to point out the flaws in another religion when you haven't focused on the flaws of your own first? Or is it being a victim of the PC world we live in? But then you just go back to playing victim again.

It's probably a little bit all three, but it's definately not a way to debate this subject.
What is the greater threat to our world today ? Jihad, which is expressly allowed in one religion, or gay marriage ? Just a thought. You may return to regularly scheduled bickering.

:-)
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:12 PM   #129
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Phew, glad this is sorted

I have to try and be really quick as I'm sneaking the net at work and I only temp here so it's technically stealing resources..

Ok, so Christianity aims to promote love, acceptance, and not judging. Which is great, unless you are a homosexual. Or other things, but we're all on about sexuality at the moment. People say it's not exclusionary, but it is. Ask a homosexual Christian how he or she feels. I dont get how people who are supposedly caring and good people can allow this to fester. They dont seem to want to change it, so their inaction is seeming like an embracing of these views which are causing hurt and pain to so many. In the name of God. Like any of us have a bloody clue what God's will is, or who He'd like to see married. It's this fostering of seperation and judgement which really leaves me cold. Too often we see people preening themselves over their righteous path and the like, but what the fuck is so righteous and admirable about such lack of compassion and acceptance?

I explained/ranted a bit further back about it, if you're interested.
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:15 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino


What is the greater threat to our world today ? Jihad, which is expressly allowed in one religion, or gay marriage ? Just a thought. You may return to regularly scheduled bickering.

:-)
Tell me, how placing a comparison next to this one, in any way takes away from this religion's flaws?

You seem comfortable with it all, so there's no need to hide anything is there?
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:18 PM   #131
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Tell me, how placing a comparison next to this one, in any way takes away from this religion's flaws?

You seem comfortable with it all, so there's no need to hide anything is there?
No, there isn't. I'm happy with my religion, I am taught that sinners in the eyes of the Lord are to be forgiven, accepted and loved not ostracized, lynched, lethally injected or blown to pieces.
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:20 PM   #132
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Phew, glad this is sorted

I have to try and be really quick as I'm sneaking the net at work and I only temp here so it's technically stealing resources..

Ok, so Christianity aims to promote love, acceptance, and not judging. Which is great, unless you are a homosexual.
Huh?

Christianity is taught to forgive and love, even those thought to be sinners.
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:20 PM   #133
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I think that the rise of radical Islam over the last century and the decline of Christianity is a very important one. It should not be used as a moral compass but when it comes to the influence of each religion I must say that Christianity is looking weak and most churches can barely control their own followers without condemnation from society. It is a pity really, I am no fan of Christianity but it's logical replacement is truly scary.
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Old 12-14-2004, 06:38 PM   #134
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Originally posted by thacraic


Hiya indra and BVS as well. I address both of you because you both said the same thing.

I didn't pose it as a question. I didn't ask WHY it happens. I just made a simple observation as to possibly why cardosino was pointing it out. But both yours and BVS' replies confirm that it does in fact happen.
Do I criticise Christianity? Duh, of course, I criticise many things, including Christianity (especially certain versions of it). I hope you do too...in fact I would be disappointed if you didn't criticise Christianity. To be able to fix what's wrong (with anything), you first must realise and accept that there are problems...and everything has problems.

I guess I just do not understand what you and AcrobatMan consider bashing.... To me it appears to be any criticism at all...and that's a pretty low threshold.


Quote:
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indra, whats IQ of your Steve...170 ???
Never comes up in conversations.... Besides, IQ tests are not wholly accurate indicators of intelligence, as you well know, I'm sure.
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Old 12-14-2004, 07:08 PM   #135
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Huh?

Christianity is taught to forgive and love, even those thought to be sinners.
Allow me to bold this as previous posts perhaps weren't understood:
How can you justify the hurt and exclusion your religion causes?

THAT is it, nothing to do with Islam. Loving isn't telling someone they dont have a place. Accepting them requires allowing them the same rights and opportunities as everyone else. Forgiving them? Are you God?
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