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Old 12-10-2004, 11:47 AM   #31
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Originally posted by thacraic


Hiya UnforgettableLemon,

You must mean the non-Sunni muslims I take it?
Interestingly, they also said that in most places, neither Islamic group realized that there was tension until we told them there was
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:53 AM   #32
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Lost sight of what ?
Of everything. They are whining about not having monuments in the courtroom and two men getting married while the poor are still poor and nations are dying off of AIDS.
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:54 AM   #33
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Hiya BVS,

You don't think that is true?




Carrie
Please give me an example of how Christians are persecuted here in the states? I'm very curious.
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:21 PM   #34
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Of everything. They are whining about not having monuments in the courtroom and two men getting married while the poor are still poor and nations are dying off of AIDS.



which would Jesus care more about?

then again, saving the huddled, starving masses who don't really look like you and me isn't nearly as much fun as imagining subversion and then donning your cloak of righteousness to battle imaginary internal enemies.
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:33 PM   #35
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Of everything. They are whining about not having monuments in the courtroom and two men getting married while the poor are still poor and nations are dying off of AIDS.
My church, saddleback in Orange county, has given hundreds of thousands, if not millions of $$ in aid to African AIDS clinics, and routinely sends in volunteer teams. to help out, and lobbies actively even up to the George Bush level for support of debt relief and help for AIDS clinics (the head pastor is very influential, he has spoken abotu helping the poor on Dateline, Larry King, etc )

So, I guess you are maybe speaking for one or two christians, as opposed to hundreds of millions of them?

Way to make ignorant sweeping generalizations.
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:39 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Irvine511





which would Jesus care more about?

The African AIDS crisis.

Pastor of our church, when asked about what Jesus would be doing if he came back today ? "Probably working in an AIDS clinic"

It never ceases to amaze me how fans of a band who's driving force and inspiration is based on Christianity, can be so overwhelmingly ignorant about Christianity, whose fans will nto stand for bigotry towards homosexuals, will support Amnest, but will not hesitate to tar hundreds of millions of believers of a certain fait with the worst brush possible based upon the actions of an extreme few.

You are intellectually lazy, go look up how much money Christian charities and churches have given to the poor of the world this year, then come back and make your sweeping generalizations.
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:41 PM   #37
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Originally posted by cardosino


My church, saddleback in Orange county, has given hundreds of thousands, if not millions of $$ in aid to African AIDS clinics, and routinely sends in volunteer teams. to help out, and lobbies actively even up to the George Bush level for support of debt relief and help for AIDS clinics (the head pastor is very influential, he has spoken abotu helping the poor on Dateline, Larry King, etc )

So, I guess you are maybe speaking for one or two christians, as opposed to hundreds of millions of them?

Way to make ignorant sweeping generalizations.

well, the one or two christians who purport to speak for most christians -- say, Robertson and Falwell -- are certainly guilty of this.

this is not to discount much of the wonderful work done by many churches, nor did we see Karl Rove working below the radar in rural Ohio and using charity and good will as a way to get out the Christian vote.

and let's not forget Bono's quote about his bus tour with Ashley Judd when they toured churches in middle America -- "it was like getting blood from a stone."
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:44 PM   #38
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Originally posted by cardosino


The African AIDS crisis.

Pastor of our church, when asked about what Jesus would be doing if he came back today ? "Probably working in an AIDS clinic"

It never ceases to amaze me how fans of a band who's driving force and inspiration is based on Christianity, can be so overwhelmingly ignorant about Christianity, whose fans will nto stand for bigotry towards homosexuals, will support Amnest, but will not hesitate to tar hundreds of millions of believers of a certain fait with the worst brush possible based upon the actions of an extreme few.

You are intellectually lazy, go look up how much money Christian charities and churches have given to the poor of the world this year, then come back and make your sweeping generalizations.

you know what -- i'm not even going to respond.

go feel good about yourself, and wrap that blanket of righteousness around yourself.

and go check out what Bono has to say about the Church and about Christians -- not God or Jesus or Christianity. he makes distinctions, as do we, and you accuse others of an ignorance that drips from your post.
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:50 PM   #39
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well, the one or two christians who purport to speak for most christians -- say, Robertson and Falwell -- are certainly guilty of this.
OK, so that's 2.

They speak for most Christians in the same way OBL speaks for most muslims.

Ever hear of people like Jim Wallis, or The Pope ? They speak for many Christians too.

Cherry pick away though....or look at this link, at least read the transcript with Wallis/Sharpton/Falwell, don't worry, you won't get converted or anything, I just honestly think you'll find it interesting.

http://www.sojo.net/

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

this is not to discount much of the wonderful work done by many churches,


But the wonderful work you refer to is indeed tossed ignorantly by the wayside when most non-Christians in here discuss Christians.
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:56 PM   #40
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Originally posted by cardosino
But the wonderful work you refer to is indeed tossed ignorantly by the wayside when most non-Christians in here discuss Christians.

hmmmm .... "Hello, pot? This is the Kettle calling. You're black"

"Cherry pick away though"

"It never ceases to amaze me how fans of a band who's driving force and inspiration is based on Christianity, can be so overwhelmingly ignorant about Christianity"

"You are intellectually lazy"

"Way to make ignorant sweeping generalizations."
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:58 PM   #41
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Originally posted by Irvine511



you know what -- i'm not even going to respond.

go feel good about yourself, and wrap that blanket of righteousness around yourself.

I'm not as righteous as I'd like to be, I'm sorry you don't like the hypocrisy being pointed out.


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

and go check out what Bono has to say about the Church and about Christians -- not God or Jesus or Christianity. he makes distinctions, as do we, and you accuse others of an ignorance that drips from your post.
Poster on this forum: "Christians have lost sight"

Me: "of what"

Poster (and I paraphrase) "of everything, they are more concerned with the courtroom than they are in helping the poor"

Oh Yes, I see the distinctions being made and I see the high levels of tolerance being shown. Sorry I missed it the first time

Excuse me for getting upset when I see that, it was silly of to get upset when I saw the sweeping generalization being made.
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Old 12-10-2004, 01:02 PM   #42
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Originally posted by Irvine511



hmmmm .... "Hello, pot? This is the Kettle calling. You're black"

"Cherry pick away though"

"It never ceases to amaze me how fans of a band who's driving force and inspiration is based on Christianity, can be so overwhelmingly ignorant about Christianity"

"You are intellectually lazy"

"Way to make ignorant sweeping generalizations."
My bad.

I apologize for any offense, I should have qualified my statement.
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Old 12-10-2004, 01:13 PM   #43
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My bad.

I apologize for any offense, I should have qualified my statement.

assuming, of course, that the above quote isn't ironic or sarcastic, no worries. nuance, tone, and inflection are impossible on this forum, and i think we all wish we could come across in different ways.

i do of course agree with your resistance to being generalized about -- we all hate it, and i feel it very personally. i've lived as an American abroad, and i live as a semi-open gay man, so i feel your pain.

while i found next to nothing in my little parish growing up (i distinctly remember the priest giving a christmas sermon on how this was the time of year we should be nice to the "losers"), i realize that some people draw great strength from their religion, and are motivated to do work that they otherwise might not have the inner-strength to do.

what i, and others, i think, object to is how Political Christianity -- run by Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, and others -- appears obsessed with homosexuality, while millions die of AIDS and starvation. i think what's going on is what happens whenever you have any "group" of people -- the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Fallwell blames 9-11 on "feminists, abortionists, pagans, and homosexuals" and he gets his fat mug on the news. i think you are 100% in the right to demand a distinction between this particular group, and yourself, and probably millions of others.
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Old 12-10-2004, 01:19 PM   #44
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Originally posted by Irvine511



well, the one or two christians who purport to speak for most christians -- say, Robertson and Falwell -- are certainly guilty of this.

this is not to discount much of the wonderful work done by many churches, nor did we see Karl Rove working below the radar in rural Ohio and using charity and good will as a way to get out the Christian vote.

and let's not forget Bono's quote about his bus tour with Ashley Judd when they toured churches in middle America -- "it was like getting blood from a stone."
I don't like Robertson and Falwell at all, and I resent the hell out of their pretense to speak for all Christians. I suspect I'm not the only Christian in the U.S. who feels this way. Nope, if these guys represent me I'm a monkey's uncle.
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Old 12-10-2004, 01:25 PM   #45
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Originally posted by Irvine511



assuming, of course, that the above quote isn't ironic or sarcastic, no worries. nuance, tone, and inflection are impossible on this forum, and i think we all wish we could come across in different ways.
Nope, none of the above, but I do mean I should have qualified what I said, I believe many U2 fans in here are incredibly quick to pass judgement on Christians, which I find somewhat confusing given the fact that they're in here because they're U2 crazy, a band fuelled by faith, a band which preaches tolerance like no other before or since, at least preach it to such a wide audience anyway. It *seems* to me like the Christian community gets a lot less slack than any other "subdivision".

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


what i, and others, i think, object to is how Political Christianity -- run by Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, and others -- appears obsessed with homosexuality, while millions die of AIDS and starvation.

I can understand that too, but there are more reference to the poor in the Bible than almost any other subject, and I think you'll find that many think THAT is what should be focused on.


Of all worldwide major church groups, ony the Baptists came out in favour of supporting the Iraq war, every other group has come out against it.

However even in Baptist groups, a lot of good is done in terms of AIDS/Africa, but that's not very newsworthy.......
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