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Old 05-26-2005, 10:19 AM   #61
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Irvine, you're bringing up good questions.

This is from Galatians 5. It talks about the evidence of the spirit in our lives.

Life by the Spirit
*** 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

*** 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

*** 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:41 AM   #62
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is there a way to do this that doesn't rely on the Bible?

i find it very difficult to trust a 2,000 year old text for reasons that i've expounded upon in other threads.

and then i'll shut up and let this thread get back on topic.
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:48 AM   #63
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Re: Re: Is it possible?

Quote:
Originally posted by indra




And anyone who's so judgemental that they would still look down on someone who has changed their life isn't worth giving a flying fuck about anyway.


Quite possibly my favorite interference post ever.
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Old 05-26-2005, 11:20 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
is there a way to do this that doesn't rely on the Bible?
What's the point of trying define Christianity, a biblically-based faith, by any other point of reference than the Bible? Without the Bible, there is no Christianity. It all then becomes a moot point.
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Old 05-26-2005, 11:24 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

What's the point of trying define Christianity, a biblically-based faith, by any other point of reference than the Bible? Without the Bible, there is no Christianity. It all then becomes a moot point.


can't the Bible be more of a jumping-off point than an immutable, etched-in-stone rulebook?

all my experience dealing with texts and literary theory has convinced me that there is any single correct reading of anything. i see no rational reason why The Bible wouldn't fall under these same rules.

this is not to say that the Bible is "wrong," but it is to say that, if i am to live the conviction stated above, i cannot put trust in *any* literal interpretation of the text, but i can put trust in the spirit of the text.
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Old 05-26-2005, 11:33 AM   #66
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The Bible claims to be the Word of God. I believes it's claim. If it's claim about that is not true, then why would I believe anything it says about who God is? Christianity is based on the claim that Christ is God. That calim comes from teh words of Jesus, as relayed in the Bible. If I don't believe the Bible, then it has no authority on the issue of whether Christ is God, and therefore, I wouldn't believe that he is. Thuis, Christianity flies out the window.Christianity is based on the claim that Christ is God. That calim comes from teh words of Jesus, as relayed in the Bible. If I don't believe the Bible, then it has no authority on the issue of whether Christ is God, and therefore, I wouldn't believe that he is. Thuis, Christianity flies out the window.
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Old 05-26-2005, 11:49 AM   #67
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is it possible to believe in the "spirit" of the Bible rather than the "literal word" of the Bible and still be a Christian?

or is it an all or nothing proposition?
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Old 05-26-2005, 12:14 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
is it possible to believe in the "spirit" of the Bible rather than the "literal word" of the Bible and still be a Christian?

or is it an all or nothing proposition?
Mistranslations are one thing, but if I think the Bible is "lying" about anything, I have no reason to believe a word of it.
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Old 05-26-2005, 12:23 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
is it possible to believe in the "spirit" of the Bible rather than the "literal word" of the Bible and still be a Christian?

or is it an all or nothing proposition?
I think it's both actually. The Bible is tough to chew on sometimes, that's why you have all these different Christian denominations because there are different parts that are interpreted differently. However, the we all agree on what's essential Christian doctorine.

When reading the Bible, which has many authors, you have to handle each book differently. Not only is there a different author, but there's different writing styles as well. Plus, you have to consider the perspective of the writer, the audience the letter or book is written too and the historical context of it all. Are there still mysteries to the Bible —*yes, but when all this is considered, the vast majority of it can be read one way. Yes, we all bring something different to the text in our own personal experiences, but there's still one way to get through it all. Think about it, if you write a letter to someone you care deeply about and they take it the wrong way, you do everything in your power to explain it to them as you meant it to come across, right? That's how it is with the Bible, we have to see how the writer meant it to come across. That's why Biblical scholars study greek, Hebrew and other languages to see what the actual, literal meaning is.
You asked if the Bible can be a jumping-off point rather than an etched-in-stone rule book. If it is the word of God, if it is a way God's trying to get stuff across to us, why would it just be a jumping-off point? You know? Like I said earlier, we have to see what the author was trying to get across, this include what God wants us to hear.

I hope this helps some. Sorry if I'm overloading you with stuff or not answering your questions. You've got some good, valid questions. At least you're asking the questions though, that's the most important part. I still have questions myself. I've been a Christian for a while. I still have to go to people and get help with stuff. God is still showing me stuff. Unfortunately, I'm slow.
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Old 05-26-2005, 12:59 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Mistranslations are one thing, but if I think the Bible is "lying" about anything, I have no reason to believe a word of it.


i'm talking about option 3.

we take the spirit of the text, which isn't served by either lying or mistranslating -- in fact, it's the literal readings that are most vulnerable to lies and mistranslations.
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Old 05-26-2005, 01:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


I've been a Christian for a while. I still have to go to people and get help with stuff. God is still showing me stuff. Unfortunately, I'm slow.
I think we're all a little that way. Rilke has a lovely quote about "living the questions"--to be as comfortable as you can with not knowing all the answers at a given point in time, because sometimes the process of learning and thinking and questioning is just as important as the answer itself.

When I'm home later, I'll post the quote--it's on a fridge magnet I have in my kitchen.
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Old 05-26-2005, 01:05 PM   #72
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Thanks for sharing that Pax. I agree with that statement. We all have to be students. Once you think you're the prof, you're in trouble.

Thanks again.
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