Is it possible? - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-25-2005, 09:10 PM   #46
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Isn't that the point of grace?
__________________

__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 05-25-2005, 09:32 PM   #47
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by clarityat3am


For the record, I don't see it that way. The only person I feel I've screwed over is myself and I'm trying to finally do something right with my life. Thanks for all the replies everyone. I really appreciate it. The past couple of months haven't been easy for me and it seems it's going to be a while before I feel completely better about my life right now. This is just a piece of the puzzle and I'm trying to understand it all and do it right this time.
Wasn't replying to your post. Never did think you screwed over anyone. Sorry if it seemed that way.
__________________

__________________
indra is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 04:22 AM   #48
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MissVelvetDress_75
The last time I went to confession was in 1990 when I was on a church retreat.
I misread this as:
The last time I went to confession was in 1900 when I was on a church boat.
Relevant, aren't I?


This thread highlights perfectly, the whole guilt problem I have with religion. The God I believe in wants you to like yourself - admit your mistakes yes, and be sorry - but always recognise your value and worth alongside that Clarity. My God unfortunately doesn't have a following which has a known name and is therefore nonexistant, but whoever did create us all, gave us the ability to feel and know both love and sadness, and guilt and remorse, and I fully suspect he wishes us to use all of it. Not let one engulf us and take over our whole sense of ego.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 06:09 AM   #49
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:03 PM
I can understand why some people are turned off by the Church. I've seen people get so bogged down with legalism it's insane. My mother had a friend when I was a kid who was a Catholic. She had six children and then started to use birth control. She went nuts with guilt because she thought she was going to hell for using birth control. The upshot was that she saw a Catholic psychiatrist, and she was able to work out her difficulties. I have a friend at church who used birth control after four kids, and she didn't have any trouble with it. She continues to attend mass today, thirty years after her birth control experience. This is the way it should be, to me. To me, the teaching on birth control made sense in an earlier time when infant mortality in Europe was much higher than it is now. It used to be that if you had seven kids, two of them might grow up, the others would die of childhood diseases. Now with vaccines and penicillin and whatnot, it's a whole different ballgame, and the Church just hasn't caught up with it.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 07:58 AM   #50
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Wow, I really like Melon and Angela Harlem's posts. You guys made some beautiful points.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 08:13 AM   #51
I Serve Larry's Stick
 
clarityat3am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posts: 2,996
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Wasn't replying to your post. Never did think you screwed over anyone. Sorry if it seemed that way.
No, I realize that. I was just clarifying in case anyone may have had that thought cross their mind. I think I've been here long enough for people to know that I'm not like that though.
__________________
clarityat3am is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 08:18 AM   #52
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

The God I believe in wants you to like yourself - admit your mistakes yes, and be sorry - but always recognise your value and worth alongside that Clarity. My God unfortunately doesn't have a following which has a known name and is therefore nonexistant, but whoever did create us all, gave us the ability to feel and know both love and sadness, and guilt and remorse, and I fully suspect he wishes us to use all of it. Not let one engulf us and take over our whole sense of ego.
Your God sounds like Jesus - not the Jesus you may have seen portrayed by some members of teh church, but the Biblical Jesus who loved mankind so much that he willingly laid down his life so that anyone who follows him will be free from the powers of guilt and sin and death.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 08:34 AM   #53
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:03 PM
just my opinion, but the more i hear about the actual processes of salvation, the more cult-like it sounds.

just my opinion.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-26-2005, 08:45 AM   #54
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Why do you say that?
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 08:51 AM   #55
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:03 PM
repetition of statements, arguing over subtle differences, absolutist and romantic language, promise of rewards for holding highly specific beliefs, punishments for failure to ascribe to said specific beliefs, fear, guilt, shame ... all this seems really incidental to what actually matters.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-26-2005, 09:42 AM   #56
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 01:03 PM
You're right. Actually, most of what you mentioned has nothing to do with Salvation —*certainly not the repetition of statements, fear, guilt and shame.

The actual process of salvation is simply confessing sins, seeking forgiveness, acknowledging the work on the cross and the ressurrection and accepting Christ as lord of your life. That's it really.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 09:48 AM   #57
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:03 PM
i guess i also hear very vague phrases that simply don't have any meaning to me (not meaning *for* me, an important distinction).

what does it mean to "accept Christ as lord of your life"?

how do you accept? what do you accept?

what do we mean by Lord? what does a Lord do?

etc, etc.

i guess there seem to me to be so many empty phrases regarding the specifics of something like salvation, that my gut reaction is simply to walk away because it seems to have no basis in anything.

i also want to be clear that this is my personal, knee-jerk reaction, and i in no way mean to belittle anyone's faith -- i'm simply asking for clarity, and perhaps if i knew more about the specifics of the Bible i wouldn't have as many questions.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-26-2005, 09:59 AM   #58
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i guess i also hear very vague phrases that simply don't have any meaning to me (not meaning *for* me, an important distinction).

what does it mean to "accept Christ as lord of your life"?

how do you accept? what do you accept?

what do we mean by Lord? what does a Lord do?

etc, etc.

i guess there seem to me to be so many empty phrases regarding the specifics of something like salvation, that my gut reaction is simply to walk away because it seems to have no basis in anything.

i also want to be clear that this is my personal, knee-jerk reaction, and i in no way mean to belittle anyone's faith -- i'm simply asking for clarity, and perhaps if i knew more about the specifics of the Bible i wouldn't have as many questions.
Accepting Christ as Lord of Your Life means giving control to him. You see when a person becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit moves in. And the Holy Spirit is there for a reason - to give the person strength, power, wisdom and just the gumption to keep on living. The Holy Spirit wants the Christian to rely on him, to listen for his words of guidance. When someone gives the Holy Spirit the "keys to the car" and let's HIm drive, that's accepting Christ as "Lord of your life".

You accept Christ as savior simply by admitting that you've sinned against God (and this is a general "you", indicative of everyone, not just Irvine511) and aksing for his forgiveness, believing that Christ is the Son of God/God in the flesh and that he died and rose to pay the price that sin demands. This is called being "redeemed". Then you follow Christ, trusing him to work in you and through you.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 05-26-2005, 10:05 AM   #59
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Accepting Christ as Lord of Your Life means giving control to him. You see when a person becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit moves in. And the Holy Spirit is there for a reason - to give the person strength, power, wisdom and just the gumption to keep on living. The Holy Spirit wants the Christian to rely on him, to listen for his words of guidance. When someone gives the Holy Spirit the "keys to the car" and let's HIm drive, that's accepting Christ as "Lord of your life".

You accept Christ as savior simply by admitting that you've sinned against God (and this is a general "you", indicative of everyone, not just Irvine511) and aksing for his forgiveness, believing that Christ is the Son of God/God in the flesh and that he died and rose to pay the price that sin demands. This is called being "redeemed". Then you follow Christ, trusing him to work in you and through you.


how do i give control to Christ? i need specifics, i need to know the process, i need to know the results.

sorry, i don't buy that you can see the Holy Spirit -- whatever that is ... please, name it, identify it, classify it, etc. -- working through Christians because i know some self-proclaimed Christians who are genuinely awful people.

does one need the Holy Spirit for "strength, power, wisdom and just the gumption to keep on living"? i don't care about the HS, yet i'm totally fine with all this. and i can point out several billion people in the world who couldn't give a toss about the HS and seem to do just fine.

how do you know what the HS "wants"? is it a person with wants, but shouldn't God be beyond wants?

i feel like i could go on, but i think my point has been made ... it's all so vague, so empty, so able to be filled with only the meaning that i choose to put in there. if you tell me that you feel the HS, i really can't disprove that statement and i suppose i'd have to believe you because i couldn't prove you wrong. yet i don't think the burden of proof should be on me, it should be on the person who claims that the HS is working through them. seems like it's such an easy thing to claim, such an easy thing to "prove" if you're the only one who can "feel" it.

am i making sense? sorry ... this stuff is hard to write out and is easier to have the discussion in person.

and i mean all of these as pure questions, nothing rhetorical.

i simply don't know, and i don't claim to know anything more than anyone else. i'm just asking questions when they occur to me.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-26-2005, 10:12 AM   #60
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Hey man, no problem. I understand where you're coming from. I can see why you think that.

You bring up some good questions. To accept Christ as lord of your life means you put your life in his hands. Remember, Christ was crucified, but he rose from the dead. He's still alive. It simply means going by his way, rather than ours. It's like the end of "Falling At Your Feet," (one of the best worship songs ever btw) when Bono sings "not my will, thy will." That's what it's about. Letting him lead you through life, rather than doing it on your own. There's also the saying "I must decrease, so He can increase." It's getting rid of pride and turning it into humility. You're seeking to be obedient to his commands, which we find in the Bible. His commands are for our own good anyway, as well as for the good of humanity.
If you look up the word Lord, it means "ruler, master." And this how we should see Christ. However, it doesn't end there. While he is my ruler and master, he's also like a loving friend. I know that sounds like some corny crap, but that's really how it is. More than anything, he wants a genuine relationship with us — including you. He died for us, it's just up to us to make the next move, and in a sense, die to ourselves for him.

Does that help explain things at all?
__________________

__________________
coemgen is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com