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Old 09-15-2006, 02:33 PM   #16
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Firstly apathy has nothing to do with neutrality. Look them up.
If you ackowledge your sentiment lies within a gray area - you effectively are neurtral - there is no clear cut polar decision.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Firstly apathy has nothing to do with neutrality. Look them up.
If you ackowledge your sentiment lies within a gray area - you effectively are neurtral - there is no clear cut polar decision.
What? Just because there's no clear right/wrong doesn't mean it paralyzes any attempt at progress. I acknowledge that there are gray areas involved with sorting out racism, however, my family has always taken a pro-active approach with this issue. I'm not sure how you're concluding that accepting gray = not doing ANYTHING about it. If anything, I think people use the gray areas as an excuse, a cop-out. Take the Nazi thing for example: my grandpa fought in WWII and liberated a concentration camp. The local people kept saying "gray" things like the "didn't know it was happening" or they "didn't like it but couldn't stop it". Too fucking bad. If you sit on your ass because you're scared of a gray area, you're not neutral, you're basically saying what's happening is OK. Since the villagers were such hypocrites, they had the fun job of giving 2000+ bodies a proper burrial.

There are rare issues where I sit neutral, but it's not because there's gray area on both sides, it's because I'll admit I'm apathetic and really don't care either way.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:23 PM   #18
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How many times has remorse turned into cries of rape?
I don't know. Why don't you tell me?
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:24 PM   #19
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I don't know. Why don't you tell me?
I don't know either, but that's my point. Trust me Martha I'm not trying to belittle the crime of rape by any means. I'm just trying to show that there never is an absolute. That's all.

Does that make sense?
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:32 PM   #20
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i think it's a huge mistake to boil down geopolitics, loaded with the weight of history, into simple right vs. wrong categories.

the world won't fit into your box, no matter how sheltered from reality you try to keep yourself.
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I'm just trying to show that there never is an absolute.
Are you absolutely sure about that? The word "never" certainly represents an absolute.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:02 PM   #22
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Rape is absolutely wrong - no matter how you cut it. There is no gray or middle ground on this subject.

Is there is any room for "relativism" if someone decided to bring six-month old babies onto a stage and slowly rip off their arms, legs, and heads? Of course not. Absolutes indeed exist. The reason many people don't want them to exist is so they can avoid their own conscience.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:06 PM   #23
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Are you absolutely sure about that? The word "never" certainly represents an absolute.
No Absolute: free from imperfection, complete, free from restriciton of limited, not comparative or relative, ultimate

I don't see how "never" represents an absolute.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Is there is any room for "relativism" if someone decided to bring six-month old babies onto a stage and slowly rip off their arms, legs, and heads? Of course not. Absolutes indeed exist. The reason many people don't want them to exist is so they can avoid their own conscience.


woah, there, tiger. do we really want to get into a late-term abortion discussion?
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Rape is absolutely wrong - no matter how you cut it. There is no gray or middle ground on this subject.

Rape is absolutely wrong, but if it was rape isn't an absolute.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

Is there is any room for "relativism" if someone decided to bring six-month old babies onto a stage and slowly rip off their arms, legs, and heads? Of course not. Absolutes indeed exist. The reason many people don't want them to exist is so they can avoid their own conscience.
Do we always have to use extremes to prove absolutes? That should tell you something.

But there are certain "grays" in your scenario. Why did the parents allow this person access to their babies? Why didn't the audience stop him?

So yes there is a wrong, but who gets how much blame isn't an absolute.

And I don't say this to avoid anything. So you may want to be careful about that absolute as well.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No Absolute: free from imperfection, complete, free from restriciton of limited, not comparative or relative, ultimate

I don't see how "never" represents an absolute.
American Heritage Dictionary:

NEVER = "Not ever; on no occasion; at no time; not at all; in no way; absolutely not"
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm just trying to show that there never is an absolute
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Rape is absolutely wrong-
Do you see why I sometimes get confused?
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I don't know either, but that's my point. Trust me Martha I'm not trying to belittle the crime of rape by any means. I'm just trying to show that there never is an absolute. That's all.

Does that make sense?
Yes and no, but I know what you weren 't trying to say. So I'm ok.
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:11 PM   #30
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Do you see why I sometimes get confused?
Yes I'm actually guilty of overusing the word 'absolutely' quite a bit. That's my bad...

My point is the difference between concept or definition vs execution of.

Yes murder is bad, but will there ever be absolute truth about the murder?

So in theory yes there may be some absolutes, but not in reality.
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