Is GW Bush a Moron>? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
View Poll Results: Is Bush a Moron?
Yes 48 64.86%
No 26 35.14%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-03-2002, 10:00 PM   #31
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:47 AM
Mrs. Edge,

Sorry for the unobjective and trashy remark. There are far more objective and technical ways to get my view point across which the remark probably failed to do anyways.

But if I had a dollar for everytime someone said something unobjective about the USA in this forum, I'd be a wealthy man.

Canada will certainly get more respect if they put more people into the military and provide more forces for NATO and increase their participation in international crises that that have a strong potential to erupt in war.
__________________

__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 02:04 AM   #32
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 10:47 PM
Sting2, you have lots of good points in your two posts. I still think the US needs our oil more then we need them to buy it from us. But i guess we can both agree that we both need eachother. I really dont want to get into a arguement about who would be worse off without eachother, we both need eachother. I do think however that the US does not give Canada any where near the respect we deserve, especially that we are eachothers biggest trading partners.

I do object to your critizisms about our military. Our track record, if studied have shown that we do support many if not all NATO inicitives. We send peacekeepers to places where they are needed. You must remember that our country, big yes, only houses 31 million ppl. a tenth of your population, and your country outspends every other country grosely. The US spends 396 billion, second to that is Russia at 60 billion. Canada spends 7.7 Billion now if we were to mulitple that by say 10 that would put us at 77 billion second to only you's.

I live next to two of the countries military bases and am proud to be friends with some of them. I do not think we are doing anything wrong and just becasue you's spend so much does not mean the rest of the world is doing something wrong. Maybe a little less spending on your part might free money up for other things.
__________________

__________________
bonoman is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 03:12 AM   #33
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,460
Local Time: 11:47 PM
sting, the way you talk about its part of our responsibility to make sure oil prices stay low in the middle east is exactly what im talking about. its the middle east! its not canada! its not the us! and you know what? its up to them how much they want to sell it for! maybe if were werent killing their children through greed, we wouldnt have conflict with them to begin with.

you mention the reason behind sanctions on iraq is because of the kuwait war. thats utter bullshit, and you know it. why the hell hasnt the us slapped sanctions on turkey for their invasion on northern cyprus a few decades ago! thats right, you guessed it! they have nothing to offer the states! its funny, do you not even know why the war started between iraq and kuwait? kuwait was stealing their oil! gee, i wonder what the us would do, trigger happy of all nations...

instead of relying so heavily on oil, could the western powers not spend some resources creating better public forms of transportation that are environmentally healthy and ARENT dependant on other countries resources which we feel the need to steal? take a look at europe for example.

this makes me more and more angry all the time. americans need to leave their wonderland every once in a while to see what its like in the rest of the world. you simply have no idea. not everything rotates around dollars and cents.

fuck, i dont even care. go fight your fucking wars, just leave canada out of it. let the bloodshed of innocent people over economics be on the american governments hands. their judgement will come one day.

oh, and britain is a joke too. tony blair is dubya's bitch.

there, that was a post that made me feel better. not a lot of cold facts cited, but i believe im repeating was commonly "known" outside the universe that is the us of a.
__________________
Zoomerang96 is online now  
Old 12-04-2002, 03:21 AM   #34
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:47 AM
Bonoman,

The USA and Canada certainly do need each other and perhaps another reason that Canada is often forgotten or not given its proper due is because, unfortunately, many people in the USA consider Canada to be apart of the USA.

The USA currently spends 18% of its annual budget on defense spending. Canada spends about 7.6% of their budget on defense spending. Canada has in the past spent and provided troops on a level closer to what the USA has done. But over the past 10 years, its military capability has rapidly dropped. Its true that Canada is 1/10th the size of the USA but the size and capability of its military is much smaller than 1/10th that of the USA.

Canada needs to double its military budget to bring it in line with the USA.

I do think there is a problem when other NATO Allies are not spending what they should be to help provide for security. Instead the USA has to do it which is part of the reason why the USA's budget is so much higher relative to several other countries in 2002.

90% of the combat missions flown in the NATO military mission against the Serb slaughter in Kosovo in 1999 were flown by the USA simply because most European aircraft were not modern enough and did not have all weather capability. Remember that the USA is now only 1/3 population wise of NATO yet is often providing 90% of the military force for operations like Kosovo. What percent of the force in Afganistan was from other NATO countries rather than the USA?

There are legitimate security concerns that have to be addressed and the USA contributes far more than the other countries to solving or containing these security problems even when population and budget are taken into account. Its time that other countries like Canada begin to pull their own weight and contribute more to the collective security of NATO and other countries.

The USA's massive defense budget and capability has certainly allowed Canada to take advantage and have a smaller defense budget. US defense spending in fact needs to increase some more in several area's. One simply cannot look at defense spending as just a pile of money. You have to look at it from the perspective of what our the threats to your security around the world and inside your country and then spend the money that is needed to accomplish your goals for security and pay those who serve in the military a good salary considering the enormous difficulty of the job they do. That is exactly what the USA does. The USA's defense budget does attempt to take into acount, Allies that do not provide their fair share. But that is often difficult to do.

Militarily, what is Canada alone capable of doing on the battlefield and is it 1/10th or around that of the USA's capability. When I get the chance I'll provide what a complete look at Canada's military as of June 1997.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 03:23 AM   #35
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,460
Local Time: 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


Canada will certainly get more respect if they put more people into the military and provide more forces for NATO and increase their participation in international crises that that have a strong potential to erupt in war.
so we gain respect through actions of war, eh?

you have no idea what we did during the balkan conflicts do you?

and you know what, we fought in afganistan with you guys, and the only ones to die were FROM YOU OWN BOMBS.

did this make us news? no. world news tonite made NO mention of it after it was everywhere in canada. its bad news, it has only negative propaganda value.

tora bora mountains in afghanistan, surely youve heard of them right? well everyone that watched the news over the past year sure has...but the funny thing is, NOONE HAS SEEN THEM. yet another faulty jouranistic error. there are no caves in that region.

maybe we just dont want or need your respect.

pacifism is so like what hippies and mennonites are into, its like, so uncool.

the difference between our mentalities is this...

you: the bigger the guns, the bigger the voice, while we would actually rather die before raising a gun.

funny again, how america is "found on christianity." lol. right. i can just see Jesus strapping on his weapons heading out to war...

thats the end of my rant for today.

it would be wise not to think of me or my opions as foolish...there are a lot more of us than you may think.
__________________
Zoomerang96 is online now  
Old 12-04-2002, 03:25 AM   #36
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,460
Local Time: 11:47 PM
oh, and im still dieing to hear from any of the pro-war people here can locate any of the axis of evil counties outlined by the commander in cheif a year ago?
__________________
Zoomerang96 is online now  
Old 12-04-2002, 04:16 AM   #37
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:47 AM
Zoomerang96,

You fail to understand many of my statements. When I talk about the global price of oil that consumers pay, I'm talking about what somone in Saudi Arabia pays, what someone in Canada pays and what someone anywhere in the world pays. All are effected when the Global price of oil increases. All benefit when energy prices our lower. That includes citizens living in the middle east. Simply increasing the price of oil will only ruin the country that is trying to sell it because no one will be able to afford it and you can't eat oil either. The whole country benefits when it produces and prices oil based on domestic and global demand.

Do you believe everything the government of Iraq tells you? Iraq accused Kuwait of slant drilling and stealing their oil, but this has never been proven and even if it was so, there was already a diplomatic process underway to resolve the dispute. Even if Iraq's accusation were true and it felt the need to act militarily, was it necessary to take over all of Kuwait and annex the country because of a few "alleged" oil drilling stations near the border? I think Not!

Europe is a big user of oil and no one is stealing oil either. The USA and Canada actually produce a substantial amount of their own oil. Oil is energy and it is cheap. Energy is needed and if another form of energy is introduced to the market that is cheaper and more efficient than oil, it will be used. The need to convert and the conversion process has already started. By 2075 at the current consumption level, all the oil in the world will be gone.

So you say I have no idea and need to leave my wonderland to see what the rest of the world is like? Well for your information, I just arrived from Ireland yesterday. My father served 30 years in the US military being stationed in South Vietnam during the Vietnam war, he was also stationed in South Korea twice each for a year, and has served extensivly in Europe and also Somalia and Sudan. One of my good friends who is a Marine just got back from Afghanistan 3 weeks ago from a 6 month mission in Afghanistan. What he saw and did there was very interesting and informative. I havn't said you live in a "wonderland" with "no idea". Don't assume others here have "no idea" either.

The USA is about increasing the security of others and protecting innocent life, not taking it. Military action is often necessary to protect innocent life, protect and enforce international law, and protect the global economy that many people rely on for their jobs which they use the money from to feed their childern and send them to school.

So Britain is a joke because they support US policy on Iraq. How about the 15 members of the United Nations that voted to support Bushes resolution on Iraq? I remind you the vote was 15-0. Everyone in the Security council voted to support Bushes resolution. Are countries like Bulgaria and Romania jokes because they support Bush's policy on Iraq?
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 04:49 AM   #38
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:47 AM
Zoomerang96,

You get respect by helping to protect international law and order and protecting international security around the world. One often has to use military force to accomplish those goals.

I actually have a very good Idea of what happened during the Balkan conflicts and followed it closely from the innitial break out of military fighting on June 25, 1991 up to problems in the region today.

I realize Canada participated with the USA in Afghanistan but the number of soldiers they sent was a tiny fraction of the total, even taking into account Canada's smaller population. The bombing was an accident. Military training can be difficulty and risky sometimes. The USA lost several soldiers in a similar event while training in Kuwait last year. Its a tragedy and more needs to be done to prevent these accidents from happening.

Your incorrect in saying that this did not make US news. Every major US news outlet reported it for days. Your also wrong in your assumption that because one is physically located in the USA they don't have access to international media. I remind you this is the 21st century not the 17th.

Your assumption about Tora Bora is false! I have seen Tora Bora on TV and my good friend who is a Marine just got back from Afghanistan 3 weeks ago after being there 6 months. He was setting up base camps for special forces soldiers before they went off on their missions. He moved around and set up bases for different operations all Around Afghanistan. He has been to and flown over Tora Bora multiple times!

There is nothing unchristian about defending oneself or others. Its not unchristian to engage in military action to defend people and stop others brutal and illegal actions. Its not unchristian to be in the military or police force. Doing those things in fact, are some of the most Christian things an individual or country can do.

By the way, the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey was a completely different situation from Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. There is no parallel there. Turkey is an important US Ally and actually provided the USA with lots of military support as does Greece. Oh and Bush's Axis of Evil is of course, Iraq, Iran, and North Korea. Considering those countries actions, it would be difficult to disagree.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 11:31 AM   #39
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,460
Local Time: 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2

The USA is about increasing the security of others and protecting innocent life, not taking it.
you dont really think im going to buy that, do you?

i see where your coming from. you have evidence to support your beliefs. i simply do not agree with just about any of it. its the way it goes.
__________________
Zoomerang96 is online now  
Old 12-04-2002, 12:14 PM   #40
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,609
Local Time: 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Discoteque
And doesn't GWB have some of the highest overall ratings of *any* president *ever*according to some polls?
something tells me this doesn't necessarily have to do with his intelligence, at least as far as some are concerned.

i've just now read the entire thread and i'd say i pretty much agree with danospano and zoomerang.

lately i'm just so sick of america in general. i wish i could move out of the country. all in due time.
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 12:54 PM   #41
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:47 AM
Zoomerang96,

You should buy it because its in the USA's best interest to do just that and so we do. But you can continue to ignore this and the USA's efforts in Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and many other area's thoughout the world and believe whatever you like.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 01:47 PM   #42
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,460
Local Time: 11:47 PM
right sting, the usa is doing such great deeds in those countries....

if your so sure of that, why not ask the people who live there yourself. im positive theyre all thrilled to pieces with america's divine intervention.
__________________
Zoomerang96 is online now  
Old 12-04-2002, 01:49 PM   #43
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,460
Local Time: 11:47 PM
oh and one more thing, sting2...why did your dad and his fellow soldiers fight in vietnam?

the purpose in that war was? im not downplaying your dad, or any soldier who fought in that war. rather the administration who put them there.

and are you going to tell me that the states won the gulf war?

im curious to see how you respond to those questions.
__________________
Zoomerang96 is online now  
Old 12-04-2002, 02:09 PM   #44
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:47 AM
Zoomerang96,

My father and his fellow soldiers fought in Vietnam along side South Vietnam soldiers to help prevent the country from being taking over by Communist rebels based in the south and supported by the military and country of North Vietnam. By the end of 1968, the North Vietnamese were doing nearly all of the fighting regrouping and attacking the South on a continueing basis.

Certainly the USA won the Gulf War based on, the defeat of Iraqi military forces on the battlefield, accomplishing the most important UN resolution which was the removal of Iraqi troops from Kuwait and the restoration of the balance of power in the region to insure security and stability. Unfortunately, Iraq's non-compliance with 16 United Nations resolutions related to their illegal and un-warented invasion of Kuwait, means that war is actually not completely over from a legal standpoint.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-04-2002, 02:30 PM   #45
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:47 AM
Zoomerang96,

In the 4 years prior to the USA bombing and putting troops on the ground in Bosnia, more than 250,000 Bosnian Muslims were slaughtered. The USA had tried two years earlier to get the Europeans to intervene to prevent the slaughter but they wouldn't. After 2 more years, the USA intervened and have been the only reason that peace has been maintained in Bosnia for 7 years now. Yes, ask how many people in Bosnia would prefer the days when there were no US troops on the ground and people were slaughtered on a daily basis by fighting which US soldiers have stopped and prevented from happening again for 7 years now. In 1997, U2 came to Sarajevo with the POPMART tour, something that would have been impossible without US military intervention and US troops on the ground. At the end of the concert, the people of Sarajevo turned to the USA troops in the bleachers of the stadium and cheered and thanked them for their efforts in securing peace stopping and preventing a war from starting again that had killed 250,000 of their on citizens. Yes, so ask nearly anyone in Bosnia, Serb, Croat, Muslim and nearly all will tell you the the life from 1996 to 2002 is heaven compared to the hell they went through before US troops military intervened in 1995. Bono and U2 also have supported the USA's military and humanitarian efforts in Bosnia.

Much the same thing with Kosovo, US military intervention prevented the Serbs from completing a mass plan of ethinic cleansing and slaughter.

In Afghanistan, my good friend who was there for 6 months was witness to the massive reconstruction efforts under way some of which he participated in. He also saw the massive return of refugees now able to return to Afganistan after decades of war. The people there were happy to talk to him and work with him. In Somalia, there are hundreds of thousands of people alive today because the USA went in and distributed food in 1992/1993 preventing further starvation.
__________________

__________________
STING2 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com