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Old 04-27-2005, 01:38 PM   #121
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


The Jews worship YHWH (God The Father), which is an essential member of the trinity. In that aspect, they worship a "part" of the God Christians do. However, their "God picture" does not include Christ, so I'd say no, he is not the same.
I think you blew this one

Jews see Jesus as a teacher or prophet much the same as Islam

Muslims worship the God of Moses and Abraham, too.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:41 PM   #122
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When Christians read the OT, they essentially believe it is also the God of the NT. The OT promises a savior. The NT brought the savior of the Christian faith. Judaism may accept the OT, but not often the NT.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:41 PM   #123
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Originally posted by shart1780
The Bible sas...

Call me close-minded, call me hateful, call me whatever you'd like, but I'm getting my beliefs right out of the Bible...

The Bible says... The Bible says this... and it's clear for anyone with eyes to read. Why can't you accept that the Bible says this?

I also know that everything in the Bible is to be taken as the absolute truth. If the Bible says...

The Bible says...
My problem is that while some argue with logic and reason, you argue with "The Bible says" - which automatically throws logic and reason out the window. Not everyone shares the belief that the Bible is 100% the word of God. It sometimes mystifies me that though the Bible was written by man (with God's inspiration), some people actually find it difficult to believe that the Bible isn't 100% the direct word of God.

Another problem I have with so many Christians is that they seem preoccupied with judging everyone else and telling everyone else what they're doing wrong and why they won't get into heaven doing it. I would hope that the central message of Jesus's teachings - ie - LOVE - would be more apparent in the lives of these Christians and how they deal with others - especially non-Christians. Instead I see a lot who are quick to judge, label and cast out, rather than show compassion, understanding and a desire to welcome them in.

Did Jesus only hang out with those who were already straight-and-narrow believers?
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:42 PM   #124
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Originally posted by shart1780


When did anyone in here say that a difference in religious beliefs is a ground to kill?
Did I claim anyone did?

It's like you went through my post with a highlighter and just pounced on something, anything you could disprove.

My point (again) was that making such claims as "They follow a different God than us" which are untrue is the first step to something like...oh, the Crusades.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:42 PM   #125
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You make the Bible sound like an extremist rant


it is not ME.

I choose not to use it that way.

But, if the sandle fits....
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:44 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


You make the Bible sound like an extremist rant that is no longer applicable. I'm basing my beliefs off of the teachins of Jesus, nothing else.
No you do base it on more. I've seen you base it on Paul's teachings, OT, etc.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:47 PM   #127
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If you believe in the trinity...then I can understand how you would feel they are not worshipping the same God as them.


One of my first debates in this forum was with NBC over this three years ago.


I still believe as a Christian they are indeed following God the Father.....
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:49 PM   #128
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
When Christians read the OT, they essentially believe it is also the God of the NT. The OT promises a savior. The NT brought the savior of the Christian faith. Judaism may accept the OT, but not often the NT.
"but not often the NT."


change that to NEVER.

And what does Islam believe?
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:50 PM   #129
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Originally posted by deep


"but not often the NT."


change that to NEVER.

And what does Islam believe?
What about Jews for Jesus? There are also Jews who practice Islam as well.

If I'm not mistaken, Jesus is nothing more than a prophet in Islam.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:50 PM   #130
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Originally posted by AvsGirl41
However, it is wrong *and* worrying when Christians begin insisting they follow a different God than we do. That is how holy war is justified. And that is just simply not true. Their interpretation of the *message* (and arguably, the individuals involved) is different, but the origin is the same.

You can believe they are misguided if you want (they believe we are), you can argue we are different, but that essential fact remains. We're all cut from the same religious cloth, it's the way we have chosen to wear it that is different. There are many similarities and I wish those would be looked at, rather than what seperates us.
They may share similar historical roots, but they *are* two separate religions with two separate definitions of God.

Similarities in terminology or historical roots do not validate the statement that the definition of God is the same.

The point is not to create a political or social division, but to realize that theologically they are separate, distinct and incompatible with each other.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:50 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


"but not often the NT."


change that to NEVER.

And what does Islam believe?
Deep there are Jewish groups that believe Christ is the Messiah.

Although, most Jews would not agree.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:52 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


My problem is that while some argue with logic and reason, you argue with "The Bible says" - which automatically throws logic and reason out the window.

Another problem I have with so many Christians is that they seem preoccupied with judging everyone else and telling everyone else what they're doing wrong and why they won't get into heaven doing it. I would hope that the central message of Jesus's teachings - ie - LOVE - would be more prevalent in the lives of Christians. Instead I see a lot who are quick to judge, label and cast out, rather than show compassion, understanding and a desire to welcome them in.

Did Jesus only hang out with those who were already straight-and-narrow believers?
The Bible isn't always logical. If it was I don't think faith would be so hard to keep!

And you're right that alot of christians spend too much time judging and not enough time on themselves. Over a message board it's pretty hard to tell who's doing this of course. There are alot of christians doing good though.

There's a time for gentle compassion and a time for judging with God's word (and nothing else). Sometimes it's harsh just because of the nature of the scriptures. I would never turn anyone away as a friend just because of their religious beliefs. Will I always think they're God's children? No. Most of my friends aren't even christians.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:55 PM   #133
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Originally posted by Diemen
Another problem I have with so many Christians is that they seem preoccupied with judging everyone else and telling everyone else what they're doing wrong and why they won't get into heaven doing it.
Do you see the irony in this statement?


With this logic, if you have an infection, and I tell you to take some antibiotics to get rid of the infection, I'd be judging you.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:57 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


The Bible isn't always logical. If it was I don't think faith would be so hard to keep!
I think I would clarify this statement as:

"Not always logical, as far as man can judge logic. But God is the creator of logic and his logic goes far beyond what man can comprehend"
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:58 PM   #135
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
One of my first debates in this forum was with NBC over this three years ago.


I still believe as a Christian they are indeed following God the Father.....
We do have a good history here....


If it is the same God the Father, why is there such a radical difference in the offer of salvation and the commands that one is to follow? Is God just messing with one group?
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