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Old 04-27-2005, 10:55 AM   #106
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The Bible - it takes a week to read and a lifetime to understand and follow.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:07 AM   #107
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One Holy Spirit
Wow, nb, that is deep, and is an excellent example of how the Holy Spirit in each Christian creates a unity, binding Christians together as a family, manifests itself in life.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:42 AM   #108
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Tell me if the below makes any sense

"Is God against religions that believes in celebration of Christmas ?"

Plain joke isnt it ...Do you want to discuss it..

I have found this thread offensive as it is targetting a group of religions which believe in idol worship.

This thread is intended to tell that ...hey this religion is better than that...and whether God favors members of some particular religions as against other religions...

And when I tell this ..I am accused of talking non-sense..

Just because I believe that all people - religious and non-religious...are equal...no religion is better than other... You think
this is an invalid comment...

And excuse me..I am not harassing anyone.
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Old 04-27-2005, 12:42 PM   #109
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What are you saying?
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Old 04-27-2005, 12:59 PM   #110
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I am really amazed--but shouldn't be--at the wild descriptions of Islam floating around this thread, including suggestions that Muslims do not believe in the same God as Christians and Jews do. You wouldn't claim a Jew does not follow the same God because they follow different laws--why a Muslim?

Islam is different than Christianity in *many* ways, but Allah and God *are* the same, regardless of what, apparently, many Christians would like to believe. This is why Muslims refer to themselves, Jews and Christians as "People of the Book." All three faiths spring from Abraham, who in all three interpretations, turns away from the polytheistic religon of his people and follows God/Allah.

Allah is simply the Arabic term for God. It's not a personal name. The first pillar of Islam, the declaration, "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His prophet" does not mean Allah is a different God, it means they follow no other--just as God asked Abraham to do. (I'd quote the verse, but my Bible's packed.)

Muslims believe they are following the true path, just as Christians do. They believe Christianity and Judaism are corrupted versions of God's message, and that He chose to relay it one last time through Muhammad. This does not mean they believe Jesus or His message was corrupted--they believe subsequent followers messed it up. Jesus is a sacred person in Islam. Here's a short quote from Asma Gull Hasan that explains it in easier terms--(and if someone would like this book, or my other 2 Islam books, I'd be happy to send it on, just e-mail me):

Quote:
Muslims believe that Mary, who is a very sacred woman within Islam with an entire chapter of the Qu'ran devoted to her story, was a virgin, and God chose her to mother one of his most beloved prophets. The Qu'ran also says that God created Jesus as he created Adam, with His Divine breath, He brought Adam and Jesus into existence...So why don't we say that Jesus is the Son of God? It doesn't seem that far off from what Christians believe, you may be thinking. It is a good question, with an answer that reveals the identity of God according to Muslims. Muslims believe that God is a being, omnipotent and without having certain human qualities such as gender, though He is described as having eyes and a few other features. Muslims believe He can create a person, but does not bear offspring.
I haven't been following this debate, but I find it ironic that Islam is popping up at all in a discussion (supposedly) about idolatry, given that it is *strictly* against it to the point that images are completely forbidden lest they lead the faithful astray. This is why Islamic art tends to be of abstract scriptwork or symbols like the crescent moon and star. They believe in God as the one and only so fervently that they did not allow images of Muhammad to be made for fear he would be worshipped as an equal. To a Muslim, Christianity has strayed into idolatry--rather ironic given the alleged debate here, isn't it...
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:09 PM   #111
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AvsGirl41,
I would like to assure you that I don't believe that Islam is an "idolatry" religion.

However, I would like to ask you this:

If I, as a Christian, say that Jesus the Christ is God himself, but you say he is a prophet, then don't we both worship different "Gods", despite having many of the same characters in our stories?
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:17 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
AvsGirl41,
I would like to assure you that I don't believe that Islam is an "idolatry" religion.

However, I would like to ask you this:

If I, as a Christian, say that Jesus the Christ is God himself, but you say he is a prophet, then don't we both worship different "Gods", despite having many of the same characters in our stories?
No, I don't. I ask again, would you say that a Jew followed a different God because they don't consider Jesus the Messiah?
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:18 PM   #113
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AvsGirl41,

Your own quote provides ample basis for showing the striking difference between Islam and Christianity. Jesus as created being vs. Jesus as eternal God.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:21 PM   #114
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The Bible sas God favors his children. It may sound harsh but it's the plain and simple truth. God is very clear of his laws in the Bible and most of you are extremely quick to discount the scriptures completely.

Call me close-minded, call me hateful, call me whatever you'd like, but I'm getting my beliefs right out of the Bible. Do you find the Bible hateful and offensive? The Bible is an offensive book. It's not for the feint of heart. It's harsh and it makes clear that God deals with sin harshly. If you can't accept the fact that our God is a jealous and angry god then you don't believe in the God of the Bible.

So many people say to me "we all interpret the Bible differently, who are you to tell anyone what it says? You think you know everything about God don't you?". No I don't know everthing about God and I don't know everything about the scriptures, but God made some things very very clear through the scriptures, some things I don't understand how anyone who says they believe the Bible is God's word could question. The Bible says those who practice idol worship, be it gold statues or gold coins, are fools and will not be accepted into the kingdom of Heaven. The Bible says this and it's clear for anyone with eyes to read. Why can't you accept that the Bible says this?

I don't know everything about God. I'm sure I know next to nothing about God, but I do know what God left for us in the scriptures, which is all I need to know to have a personal relationship with him. I also know that everything in the Bible is to be taken as the absolute truth. If the Bible says that those who bow down before idols in worship aren't going to Heaven then I KNOW that they won't be going to Heaven. Are you telling me that the Bible is a flat out lie? I don't understand how anyone who calls themselves a christian can do that.

That may seem unfair and harsh to you. It is harsh. But Sin isn't taken lightly. God doesn't just let everyone get away with whatever they feel like doing. Christ's sacrifice only blots out the sins of those who are willing to repent, and I don't mean repent to Allah. Christ himself said that he is the one and only way to Heaven. Christ said this.

But so many of you who call yourselves christians tell me that that's not true, that people of all religions and faiths will be in Heaven. Why do you think this? Because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside? Jesus commanded christians to reach out and preach his word (the Bible) to the lost. Who are the lost? Anyone who hasn't accepted him as the one and only lord and savior. Read the scriptures if you disagree.

Only those who accept Jesus Christ as the one and only way to eternal life will get into Heaven. This is what Christ said and it's undeniable. If you deny it you're lying to yourself. If you don't believe this you either don't believe Jesus is the son of God or you believe that Christ was a liar or off his rocker.

I sound harsh, but the truth is harsh. I know some of you will think "oh look at shart, he thinks he's so righteous, that he needs to tell us how to live our lives. Christ would never endorse such behaviour." I know the truth about how to get into Heaven because I know what Jesus told us to do. The Bible says that the scriptures are to be used to judge righteously, to differentiate the christians and the non-christians. Don't call me close-minded and judgemental when all I'm doing is quoting the scriptures. These scriptures aren't rocket science either. Basically it's saying "Jesus = the only way to Heaven, idol worship = against God". How you could not see that I don't understand.

If you disagree with me then I'd like to see how you interpret these scriptures. If you're afraid to even look at scripture then I think there's a bigger problem.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:24 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
AvsGirl41,
I would like to assure you that I don't believe that Islam is an "idolatry" religion.

However, I would like to ask you this:

If I, as a Christian, say that Jesus the Christ is God himself, but you say he is a prophet, then don't we both worship different "Gods", despite having many of the same characters in our stories?
So your absolutists views hold that Jews are not saved.



and AvsGirl41 is right why this went to Islam is very telling

they are the least in the practice idol worship?
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:25 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
AvsGirl41,

Your own quote provides ample basis for showing the striking difference between Islam and Christianity. Jesus as created being vs. Jesus as eternal God.
I never said there weren't differences--in fact, I believe that was explicitly mentioned within my post. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are very different faiths.

However, it is wrong *and* worrying when Christians begin insisting they follow a different God than we do. That is how holy war is justified. And that is just simply not true. Their interpretation of the *message* (and arguably, the individuals involved) is different, but the origin is the same.

You can believe they are misguided if you want (they believe we are), you can argue we are different, but that essential fact remains. We're all cut from the same religious cloth, it's the way we have chosen to wear it that is different. There are many similarities and I wish those would be looked at, rather than what seperates us.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:29 PM   #117
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Originally posted by AvsGirl41




That is how holy war is justified.

When did anyone in here say that a difference in religious beliefs is a ground to kill?
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:30 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41


No, I don't. I ask again, would you say that a Jew followed a different God because they don't consider Jesus the Messiah?
The Jews worship YHWH (God The Father), which is an essential member of the trinity. In that aspect, they worship a "part" of the God Christians do. However, their "God picture" does not include Christ, so I'd say no, he is not the same.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:35 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
The Bible sas God favors his children. It may sound harsh but it's the plain and simple truth. God is very clear of his laws in the Bible and most of you are extremely quick to discount the scriptures completely.

Call me close-minded, call me hateful, call me whatever you'd like, but I'm getting my beliefs right out of the Bible. Do you find the Bible hateful and offensive? The Bible is an offensive book. It's not for the feint of heart. It's harsh and it makes clear that God deals with sin harshly. If you can't accept the fact that our God is a jealous and angry god then you don't believe in the God of the Bible.

So many people say to me "we all interpret the Bible differently, who are you to tell anyone what it says? You think you know everything about God don't you?". No I don't know everthing about God and I don't know everything about the scriptures, but God made some things very very clear through the scriptures, some things I don't understand how anyone who says they believe the Bible is God's word could question. The Bible says those who practice idol worship, be it gold statues or gold coins, are fools and will not be accepted into the kingdom of Heaven. The Bible says this and it's clear for anyone with eyes to read. Why can't you accept that the Bible says this?

I don't know everything about God. I'm sure I know next to nothing about God, but I do know what God left for us in the scriptures, which is all I need to know to have a personal relationship with him. I also know that everything in the Bible is to be taken as the absolute truth. If the Bible says that those who bow down before idols in worship aren't going to Heaven then I KNOW that they won't be going to Heaven. Are you telling me that the Bible is a flat out lie? I don't understand how anyone who calls themselves a christian can do that.

That may seem unfair and harsh to you. It is harsh. But Sin isn't taken lightly. God doesn't just let everyone get away with whatever they feel like doing. Christ's sacrifice only blots out the sins of those who are willing to repent, and I don't mean repent to Allah. Christ himself said that he is the one and only way to Heaven. Christ said this.

But so many of you who call yourselves christians tell me that that's not true, that people of all religions and faiths will be in Heaven. Why do you think this? Because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside? Jesus commanded christians to reach out and preach his word (the Bible) to the lost. Who are the lost? Anyone who hasn't accepted him as the one and only lord and savior. Read the scriptures if you disagree.

Only those who accept Jesus Christ as the one and only way to eternal life will get into Heaven. This is what Christ said and it's undeniable. If you deny it you're lying to yourself. If you don't believe this you either don't believe Jesus is the son of God or you believe that Christ was a liar or off his rocker.

I sound harsh, but the truth is harsh. I know some of you will think "oh look at shart, he thinks he's so righteous, that he needs to tell us how to live our lives. Christ would never endorse such behaviour." I know the truth about how to get into Heaven because I know what Jesus told us to do. The Bible says that the scriptures are to be used to judge righteously, to differentiate the christians and the non-christians. Don't call me close-minded and judgemental when all I'm doing is quoting the scriptures. These scriptures aren't rocket science either. Basically it's saying "Jesus = the only way to Heaven, idol worship = against God". How you could not see that I don't understand.

If you disagree with me then I'd like to see how you interpret these scriptures. If you're afraid to even look at scripture then I think there's a bigger problem.

Sounds like the same rant Jesus of Nazareth heard from the "so called" religious people of his day.

They claimed to be following the "law" or book as it was given to them.

He spoke of something new that was "relative" to the people living at the time.
Not something that was hundreds or thousands of years old.

Perhaps one would like their medicine or government or anything else to NOT to be "relative" to the current times.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:37 PM   #120
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Originally posted by deep



Sounds like the same rant Jesus of Nazareth heard from the "so called" religious people of his day.

They claimed to be following the "law" or book as it was given to them.

He spoke of something new that was "relative" to the people living at the time.
Not something that was hundreds or thousands of years old.

Perhaps one would like their medicine or government or anything else to NOT to be "relative" to the current times.
You make the Bible sound like an extremist rant that is no longer applicable. I'm basing my beliefs off of the teachins of Jesus, nothing else. If you find this extremist then I don't know what to say to you.

Is there some new gospel that came from the mouth of God that I should be aware of? I thought the christiam was supposed to live his life according to the Bible. Do you disagree?


If this isn't true, then tell me how you interpret the scriptures I mentioned.
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