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Old 04-26-2005, 09:12 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Lemonseed
Idolatry is a terrible sin, and I think Jesus would be shocked and appalled at how much Christian dogma treats him as an idol.

Idolatry is a sin because it confuses the object being worshipped with God itself.

To better explain: We all have God-shaped holes. It's what makes us human. In other words, we have an existential need that can only be addressed by God. When we try to stuff that hole with power, money, sex, drugs, fast cars, ritual, or idols, we are acting out of sin. The typical midlife crisis is a desperate attempt to fill that same hole.

It's the same fallacy as saying "You must take communion to see God" or "You must go to church" to have a satisfactory life. Many people need to hear the OPPOSITE! Stop going to church! You're CONFUSING THAT MATERIAL ACTION WITH FINDING GOD!
I agree with you I suppose. Alot of people say that you need to preform all these rituals to be accepted by God, when in reality all that's needed is a personal relationship with him. This is why I have some disagreements with the catholic church.

Rituals don't save anyone as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:18 PM   #77
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I really think John smoked a lot of pot......I say this not because I am trying to be offensive......I do not like his style.
he did write some good songs

i really like "imagine"
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:20 PM   #78
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I agree that Christ is God itself. In truth I believe we all are but do not realize this as sinners. This is where idolatry gets tricky in Christianity. The IMAGE of Christ is what I'm speaking of. When people don't worship his essence...his essential nature.

Maybe its the implicit belief that "The body of Christ CONTAINS God" where the idolatry kicks in. We really end up worshipping his body or the crucifix, not his love or his Godhood. Nothing about Christ went away when he died and his body decomposed.

Kinda like "I love you for your looks" rather than "I love you for you."

Once you have a personal relationship with Christ, I think the idolatry is not as big an issue. I will say, however, that I believe that personal relationship with Christ/Love/God is not contingent on the crucifix or the body of Christ. I.e. I allow for other religions to have that transcendent experience of love.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:22 PM   #79
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is God against religions that practice id

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I'm reading the New King James version, and there are no end quotes between 15 and 16.

What version are you reading? I've never read any version that does not attribute this passage to Jesus.
New International Version 'student'.

But I just looked online, and I've seen both, sorta. Some end and start up again but in third person.

But the two Bible's I have(the other I couldn't give you the version of, the spine is worn and I can't find in anywhere) it's not in red.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:38 PM   #80
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Originally posted by shart1780


I don't understand how you so quickly discount all of God's teachings.
Um. Perhaps you should reread my post.

I'm not a Christian. I am agnostic, which is defined by Webster's as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god."

Given that definition of agnostic, I think it's pretty clear that I don't view the Bible or any part therein to be God's words/teachings. I think, in my less cynical moments, that the Bible might be several people's idea of what a god's teachings should be.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:43 PM   #81
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The Self we all have that is afraid to die did not exist within Jesus.

When we try to understand Jesus by projecting ourselves onto him, we fail. People who have not humbled themselves to this fact one way or the other are guilty of idol worship, because it is still a selfish motive.

If the best relationship we can muster with Christ is from a sense of duty, obligation, or social norms, we are guilty of idol worship.

People who condemn others/feel superior to others who do not believe in Christ are guilty of idol worship, because they have appropriated him for their own egos, and do not understand his unconditional love.

Thinking that if you somehow keep enough crosses around the house, you're a good Christian, is idolatry. Or banking on that for salvation. That's missing the point.

In short, its thinking that ANYTHING MATERIAL--behaviors, concepts (the word "God" is not God), or objects--will ultimately save you, I would consider idolatry.

Of course, that's a damned pressuring definition, with big implications...
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:52 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Lemonseed
The Self we all have that is afraid to die did not exist within Jesus.

When we try to understand Jesus by projecting ourselves onto him, we fail. People who have not humbled themselves to this fact one way or the other are guilty of idol worship, because it is still a selfish motive.

If the best relationship we can muster with Christ is from a sense of duty, obligation, or social norms, we are guilty of idol worship.

People who condemn others/feel superior to others who do not believe in Christ are guilty of idol worship, because they have appropriated him for their own egos, and do not understand his unconditional love.

Thinking that if you somehow keep enough crosses around the house, you're a good Christian, is idolatry. Or banking on that for salvation. That's missing the point.

In short, its thinking that ANYTHING MATERIAL--behaviors, concepts (the word "God" is not God), or objects--will ultimately save you, I would consider idolatry.

Of course, that's a damned pressuring definition, with big implications...
Man, that is some good truth you are speaking there. GOOD TRUTH.
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:47 PM   #83
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>>Is God against religions that practice idol worship?

What a joke ?

You cant be serious...
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:55 PM   #84
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Do you have a valid comment, or are you on a campaign to harass?
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Old 04-27-2005, 12:26 AM   #85
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is God against religions that practice id

Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


New International Version 'student'.

But I just looked online, and I've seen both, sorta. Some end and start up again but in third person.

But the two Bible's I have(the other I couldn't give you the version of, the spine is worn and I can't find in anywhere) it's not in red.
I have the revised standard version, which I believe is much more trustworthy than the King James Version which has been picked apart by many biblical scholars to have numerous translation errors, do a google search if any of you wish to read more about these problems.

Anyhow, point is, my revised standard version has that John 3 quote from 10-15 and stopping.

I have nothing more to add other than I would echo Dr Lemonseed and say that he/she has some outstanding viewpoints.
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:34 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Do you have a valid comment, or are you on a campaign to harass?
Tell me if the below makes any sense

"Is God against religions that believes in celebration of Christmas ?"

Plain joke isnt it ...Do you want to discuss it..

I have found this thread offensive as it is targetting a group of religions which believe in idol worship.

This thread is intended to tell that ...hey this religion is better than that...and whether God favors members of some particular religions as against other religions...

And when I tell this ..I am accused of talking non-sense..

Just because I believe that all people - religious and non-religious...are equal...no religion is better than other... You think
this is an invalid comment...

And excuse me..I am not harassing anyone.
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Old 04-27-2005, 03:31 AM   #87
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If Dr Lemonseed writes the truth, then Acrobat Man is completely correct.
Which I reckon he is anyway, valid at least. Yet it never bothers (or seems to bother) religious folk that it is offensive.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:09 AM   #88
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I have only very recently discovered God and am now reading books about the Bible, eventually leading upto reading the Bible again itself (I've read it over 10 years ago and never quite studied it).

Having said that, I just wanted to comment on the fact that I was agnostic untill only recently (say 1-2 months ago even!) and somehow, God showed Himself to me and I feel blessed.

I respect the knowledge on the Bible a lot of posters here have but at the same time, am kind of distressed with the demeanor some here show to know perfectly well how the Bible is to be interpreted.
I guess I'm seeing a lack of being humble and a lack of respect for the fact that noone will really know untill our days here are over.
I am awed by God's Grace, that's for sure, and it came so unexpected that I am FAR from having any kind of theory of who/when/why will go to Heaven.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:19 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by the soul waits
I have only very recently discovered God and am now reading books about the Bible, eventually leading upto reading the Bible again itself (I've read it over 10 years ago and never quite studied it).

Having said that, I just wanted to comment on the fact that I was agnostic untill only recently (say 1-2 months ago even!) and somehow, God showed Himself to me and I feel blessed.

I respect the knowledge on the Bible a lot of posters here have but at the same time, am kind of distressed with the demeanor some here show to know perfectly well how the Bible is to be interpreted.
I guess I'm seeing a lack of being humble and a lack of respect for the fact that noone will really know untill our days here are over.
I am awed by God's Grace, that's for sure, and it came so unexpected that I am FAR from having any kind of theory of who/when/why will go to Heaven.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:41 AM   #90
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For the record "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for God. You wouldn't expect someone whose first language is Arabic to use the English "God"? The French use dieu, the Germans use Gott, other people use their own language. Even some Arabic Christians refer to the Christian God as "Allah", according to some Arabic Christians on a listserver I'm on. It's a language thing, not necessarily a Christian or Muslim thing.
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