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Old 04-26-2005, 08:23 PM   #61
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I don't think that God is going to condemn a 4 year old African boy who died of AIDs and quite possibly never even heard the name Jesus.

I'm bowing out for now...
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Old 04-26-2005, 08:50 PM   #62
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You're right. God wouldn't condemn anyone who hasn't reached the age of accountability. And I'm pretty sure no 4 year old has.
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Old 04-26-2005, 08:54 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
Well, what do you disagree with me on? I don't wanna go through and explain my belief in every scrpiture I posted, I just wanted to hear your take on the subjects like wheather Jesus is the only way to Heaven, if Idol worship is against God, and if the scriptures are God's holy word.

Most of my belief's regarding these things are pretty black and white and have been stated already. I basically just wanted to know if you disagree and why.

And please refrain from personal insults, I don't see why my beliefs anger you so.
1) Jesus the only way to heaven -- nope

2) Idol worship is against God -- nope. And I'm sure any real, honest to god God couldn't give a shit if people want to worship an idol or not. There have to be better things for a god to do than be such a petty fart.

3) are Scriptures god's holy word -- well, even if you buy that they were divinely inspired, they were written by humans, and as I read it, they were/are what those humans remembered or were told by other humans. So I see it as having more human than divine in it. Which is a long way of saying nope yet again.

Of course, I'm not a Christian. And I doubt the whole god thing anyway, so that most likely colours my view.
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Old 04-26-2005, 08:55 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
You're right. God wouldn't condemn anyone who hasn't reached the age of accountability. And I'm pretty sure no 4 year old has.
But when does accountability occur? Religion doesn't define this. There are far too many gray areas, far too many contradictions to ever claim absolution.
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Old 04-26-2005, 08:55 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue

And 80sU2...I wasn't asking you I was asking Shart. Maybe you confused me with DoMiss.
I get confused sometimes, but not this time...

I wrote...

Christ said "he who believes in me will not be condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already"

You quoted it and wrote...

So he didn't die for the world's sins, just the believers? That's not what I've been told. I mean let's look at Peter alone---he believed and then he didn't and then he did again. He certainly wasn't condemned in the eyes of The Church and its history. You weren't always a believer...you made a choice to cross that line so you couldn't have already been condemned if you believe yourself redeemed?
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Old 04-26-2005, 08:59 PM   #66
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is God against religions that practice idol worship?

Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


But that quote was not accreditted to Jesus, not there or anywhere else.
Yes, it was. It was Jesus talking. Did you go read John 3:10-21?

It begins:

Jesus answered and said to him "Are you the teacher of Israel..." and there are no end quotes until verse 21. That means that everything within those quotation marks were said by Jesus. John 3:18 is within those quotation marks. It was said by Jesus.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:03 PM   #67
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is God against religions that practice idol worsh

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Yes, it was. It was Jesus talking. Did you go read John 3:10-21?

It begins:

Jesus answered and said to him "Are you the teacher of Israel..." and there are no end quotes until verse 21. That means that everything within those quotation marks were said by Jesus. John 3:18 is within those quotation marks. It was said by Jesus.
Yes I read it. I've read it many times in my life. It does start off with Jesus.

In my Bible the quotes between 16-21 are not Jesus. They are separate quotes, and they are said in third person, not in the first person.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:03 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
You're right. God wouldn't condemn anyone who hasn't reached the age of accountability. And I'm pretty sure no 4 year old has.

Age wasn't my main point. My main point was God is not going to condemn someone who may have never even heard the name Jesus. Please don't belittle or twist my words.


I'm out.


Shalom
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:05 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


But when does accountability occur? Religion doesn't define this. There are far too many gray areas, far too many contradictions to ever claim absolution.
I personally don't believe that accountability is necessarily an age. I think there are many people, both children and adults, who don't have the mental capacity to understand the Gospel. I think that those people are judged differently, in the way that only God can be just. I personally believe that anyone who does not understand right and wrong or what sin is are not necessarily judged for their sins, but for how they respond to what they do know. My basis for this is when Christ told the Pharisees:

"If you were blind, you would not be guilty, but since you say you see, your guilt remains."

My interpretation of this may be wrong. But it is my interpretation.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:05 PM   #70
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Idolatry is a terrible sin, and I think Jesus would be shocked and appalled at how much Christian dogma treats him as an idol.

Idolatry is a sin because it confuses the object being worshipped with God itself.

To better explain: We all have God-shaped holes. It's what makes us human. In other words, we have an existential need that can only be addressed by God. When we try to stuff that hole with power, money, sex, drugs, fast cars, ritual, or idols, we are acting out of sin. The typical midlife crisis is a desperate attempt to fill that same hole.

It's the same fallacy as saying "You must take communion to see God" or "You must go to church" to have a satisfactory life. Many people need to hear the OPPOSITE! Stop going to church! You're CONFUSING THAT MATERIAL ACTION WITH FINDING GOD!
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:07 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


1) Jesus the only way to heaven -- nope

2) Idol worship is against God -- nope. And I'm sure any real, honest to god God couldn't give a shit if people want to worship an idol or not. There have to be better things for a god to do than be such a petty fart.

3) are Scriptures god's holy word -- well, even if you buy that they were divinely inspired, they were written by humans, and as I read it, they were/are what those humans remembered or were told by other humans. So I see it as having more human than divine in it. Which is a long way of saying nope yet again.

Of course, I'm not a Christian. And I doubt the whole god thing anyway, so that most likely colours my view.
I don't understand how you so quickly discount all of God's teachings.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:07 PM   #72
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is God against religions that practice idol worsh

Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America

Yes I read it. I've read it many times in my life. It does start off with Jesus.

In my Bible the quotes between 16-21 are not Jesus. They are separate quotes, and they are said in third person, not in the first person.
I'm reading the New King James version, and there are no end quotes between 15 and 16.

What version are you reading? I've never read any version that does not attribute this passage to Jesus.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:09 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I personally don't believe that accountability is necessarily an age. I think there are many people, both children and adults, who don't have the mental capacity to understand the Gospel. I think that those people are judged differently, in the way that only God can be just. I personally believe that anyone who does not understand right and wrong or what sin is are not necessarily judged for their sins, but for how they respond to what they do know. My basis for this is when Christ told the Pharisees:

"If you were blind, you would not be guilty, but since you say you see, your guilt remains."

My interpretation of this may be wrong. But it is my interpretation.
I don't really mean a specific age, but everyone with the capacity of understanding comes to a point in their life when God really gets on their back about stuff, and this is when they become accountable. Of course there's no official age or anything, God deals with everyone at different times.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:10 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Lemonseed
Idolatry is a terrible sin, and I think Jesus would be shocked and appalled at how much Christian dogma treats him as an idol.

Idolatry is a sin because it confuses the object being worshipped with God itself.
But Christ made several claims of being God himself.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Lemonseed
To better explain: We all have God-shaped holes. It's what makes us human. In other words, we have an existential need that can only be addressed by God. When we try to stuff that hole with power, money, sex, drugs, fast cars, ritual, or idols, we are acting out of sin. The typical midlife crisis is a desperate attempt to fill that same hole.
This I definitely agree with. Have you ever heard "Hole-Hearted" by Extreme? That's what it is about.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:11 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


I don't really mean a specific age, but everyone with the capacity of understanding comes to a point in their life when God really gets on their back about stuff, and this is when they become accountable. Of course there's no official age or anything, God deals with everyone at different times.
I agree totally.
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