Is God against religions that practice idol worship?

[starsgoblue]

I don't think that God is going to condemn a 4 year old African boy who died of AIDs and quite possibly never even heard the name Jesus.

I'm bowing out for now...

 

[shart1780]

You're right. God wouldn't condemn anyone who hasn't reached the age of accountability. And I'm pretty sure no 4 year old has.

 

[indra]

Well, what do you disagree with me on? I don't wanna go through and explain my belief in every scrpiture I posted, I just wanted to hear your take on the subjects like wheather Jesus is the only way to Heaven, if Idol worship is against God, and if the scriptures are God's holy word.

Most of my belief's regarding these things are pretty black and white and have been stated already. I basically just wanted to know if you disagree and why.

And please refrain from personal insults, I don't see why my beliefs anger you so.

1) Jesus the only way to heaven -- nope

2) Idol worship is against God -- nope. And I'm sure any real, honest to god God couldn't give a shit if people want to worship an idol or not. There have to be better things for a god to do than be such a petty fart.

3) are Scriptures god's holy word -- well, even if you buy that they were divinely inspired, they were written by humans, and as I read it, they were/are what those humans remembered or were told by other humans. So I see it as having more human than divine in it. Which is a long way of saying nope yet again.

Of course, I'm not a Christian. And I doubt the whole god thing anyway, so that most likely colours my view.

 

[Do Miss America]

You're right. God wouldn't condemn anyone who hasn't reached the age of accountability. And I'm pretty sure no 4 year old has.

But when does accountability occur? Religion doesn't define this. There are far too many gray areas, far too many contradictions to ever claim absolution.

 

[80sU2isBest]

And 80sU2...I wasn't asking you I was asking Shart. Maybe you confused me with DoMiss.

I get confused sometimes, but not this time...

I wrote...

Christ said "he who believes in me will not be condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already"

You quoted it and wrote...

So he didn't die for the world's sins, just the believers? That's not what I've been told. I mean let's look at Peter alone---he believed and then he didn't and then he did again. He certainly wasn't condemned in the eyes of The Church and its history. You weren't always a believer...you made a choice to cross that line so you couldn't have already been condemned if you believe yourself redeemed?

 

[80sU2isBest]

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But that quote was not accreditted to Jesus, not there or anywhere else.

Yes, it was. It was Jesus talking. Did you go read John 3:10-21?

It begins:

Jesus answered and said to him "Are you the teacher of Israel..." and there are no end quotes until verse 21. That means that everything within those quotation marks were said by Jesus. John 3:18 is within those quotation marks. It was said by Jesus.

 

[Do Miss America]

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Yes, it was. It was Jesus talking. Did you go read John 3:10-21?

It begins:

Jesus answered and said to him "Are you the teacher of Israel..." and there are no end quotes until verse 21. That means that everything within those quotation marks were said by Jesus. John 3:18 is within those quotation marks. It was said by Jesus.

Yes I read it. I've read it many times in my life. It does start off with Jesus.

In my Bible the quotes between 16-21 are not Jesus. They are separate quotes, and they are said in third person, not in the first person.

 

[starsgoblue]

You're right. God wouldn't condemn anyone who hasn't reached the age of accountability. And I'm pretty sure no 4 year old has.

Age wasn't my main point. My main point was God is not going to condemn someone who may have never even heard the name Jesus. Please don't belittle or twist my words.


I'm out.


Shalom

 

[80sU2isBest]

But when does accountability occur? Religion doesn't define this. There are far too many gray areas, far too many contradictions to ever claim absolution.

I personally don't believe that accountability is necessarily an age. I think there are many people, both children and adults, who don't have the mental capacity to understand the Gospel. I think that those people are judged differently, in the way that only God can be just. I personally believe that anyone who does not understand right and wrong or what sin is are not necessarily judged for their sins, but for how they respond to what they do know. My basis for this is when Christ told the Pharisees:

"If you were blind, you would not be guilty, but since you say you see, your guilt remains."

My interpretation of this may be wrong. But it is my interpretation.

 

[Dr. Lemonseed]

Idolatry is a terrible sin, and I think Jesus would be shocked and appalled at how much Christian dogma treats him as an idol.

Idolatry is a sin because it confuses the object being worshipped with God itself.

To better explain: We all have God-shaped holes. It's what makes us human. In other words, we have an existential need that can only be addressed by God. When we try to stuff that hole with power, money, sex, drugs, fast cars, ritual, or idols, we are acting out of sin. The typical midlife crisis is a desperate attempt to fill that same hole.

It's the same fallacy as saying "You must take communion to see God" or "You must go to church" to have a satisfactory life. Many people need to hear the OPPOSITE! Stop going to church! You're CONFUSING THAT MATERIAL ACTION WITH FINDING GOD!

 

[shart1780]

1) Jesus the only way to heaven -- nope

2) Idol worship is against God -- nope. And I'm sure any real, honest to god God couldn't give a shit if people want to worship an idol or not. There have to be better things for a god to do than be such a petty fart.

3) are Scriptures god's holy word -- well, even if you buy that they were divinely inspired, they were written by humans, and as I read it, they were/are what those humans remembered or were told by other humans. So I see it as having more human than divine in it. Which is a long way of saying nope yet again.

Of course, I'm not a Christian. And I doubt the whole god thing anyway, so that most likely colours my view.

I don't understand how you so quickly discount all of God's teachings.

 

[80sU2isBest]

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Yes I read it. I've read it many times in my life. It does start off with Jesus.

In my Bible the quotes between 16-21 are not Jesus. They are separate quotes, and they are said in third person, not in the first person.

I'm reading the New King James version, and there are no end quotes between 15 and 16.

What version are you reading? I've never read any version that does not attribute this passage to Jesus.

 

[shart1780]

I personally don't believe that accountability is necessarily an age. I think there are many people, both children and adults, who don't have the mental capacity to understand the Gospel. I think that those people are judged differently, in the way that only God can be just. I personally believe that anyone who does not understand right and wrong or what sin is are not necessarily judged for their sins, but for how they respond to what they do know. My basis for this is when Christ told the Pharisees:

"If you were blind, you would not be guilty, but since you say you see, your guilt remains."

My interpretation of this may be wrong. But it is my interpretation.

I don't really mean a specific age, but everyone with the capacity of understanding comes to a point in their life when God really gets on their back about stuff, and this is when they become accountable. Of course there's no official age or anything, God deals with everyone at different times.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Idolatry is a terrible sin, and I think Jesus would be shocked and appalled at how much Christian dogma treats him as an idol.

Idolatry is a sin because it confuses the object being worshipped with God itself.

But Christ made several claims of being God himself.

To better explain: We all have God-shaped holes. It's what makes us human. In other words, we have an existential need that can only be addressed by God. When we try to stuff that hole with power, money, sex, drugs, fast cars, ritual, or idols, we are acting out of sin. The typical midlife crisis is a desperate attempt to fill that same hole.

This I definitely agree with. Have you ever heard "Hole-Hearted" by Extreme? That's what it is about.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I don't really mean a specific age, but everyone with the capacity of understanding comes to a point in their life when God really gets on their back about stuff, and this is when they become accountable. Of course there's no official age or anything, God deals with everyone at different times.

I agree totally.

 

[shart1780]

Idolatry is a terrible sin, and I think Jesus would be shocked and appalled at how much Christian dogma treats him as an idol.

Idolatry is a sin because it confuses the object being worshipped with God itself.

To better explain: We all have God-shaped holes. It's what makes us human. In other words, we have an existential need that can only be addressed by God. When we try to stuff that hole with power, money, sex, drugs, fast cars, ritual, or idols, we are acting out of sin. The typical midlife crisis is a desperate attempt to fill that same hole.

It's the same fallacy as saying "You must take communion to see God" or "You must go to church" to have a satisfactory life. Many people need to hear the OPPOSITE! Stop going to church! You're CONFUSING THAT MATERIAL ACTION WITH FINDING GOD!

I agree with you I suppose. Alot of people say that you need to preform all these rituals to be accepted by God, when in reality all that's needed is a personal relationship with him. This is why I have some disagreements with the catholic church.

Rituals don't save anyone as far as I'm concerned.

 

[deep]

I really think John smoked a lot of pot......I say this not because I am trying to be offensive......I do not like his style.

he did write some good songs

i really like "imagine"

 

[Dr. Lemonseed]

I agree that Christ is God itself. In truth I believe we all are but do not realize this as sinners. This is where idolatry gets tricky in Christianity. The IMAGE of Christ is what I'm speaking of. When people don't worship his essence...his essential nature.

Maybe its the implicit belief that "The body of Christ CONTAINS God" where the idolatry kicks in. We really end up worshipping his body or the crucifix, not his love or his Godhood. Nothing about Christ went away when he died and his body decomposed.

Kinda like "I love you for your looks" rather than "I love you for you."

Once you have a personal relationship with Christ, I think the idolatry is not as big an issue. I will say, however, that I believe that personal relationship with Christ/Love/God is not contingent on the crucifix or the body of Christ. I.e. I allow for other religions to have that transcendent experience of love.

 

[Do Miss America]

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I'm reading the New King James version, and there are no end quotes between 15 and 16.

What version are you reading? I've never read any version that does not attribute this passage to Jesus.

New International Version 'student'.

But I just looked online, and I've seen both, sorta. Some end and start up again but in third person.

But the two Bible's I have(the other I couldn't give you the version of, the spine is worn and I can't find in anywhere) it's not in red.

 

[indra]

I don't understand how you so quickly discount all of God's teachings.

Um. Perhaps you should reread my post.

I'm not a Christian. I am agnostic, which is defined by Webster's as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god."

Given that definition of agnostic, I think it's pretty clear that I don't view the Bible or any part therein to be God's words/teachings. I think, in my less cynical moments, that the Bible might be several people's idea of what a god's teachings should be.

 

[Dr. Lemonseed]

The Self we all have that is afraid to die did not exist within Jesus.

When we try to understand Jesus by projecting ourselves onto him, we fail. People who have not humbled themselves to this fact one way or the other are guilty of idol worship, because it is still a selfish motive.

If the best relationship we can muster with Christ is from a sense of duty, obligation, or social norms, we are guilty of idol worship.

People who condemn others/feel superior to others who do not believe in Christ are guilty of idol worship, because they have appropriated him for their own egos, and do not understand his unconditional love.

Thinking that if you somehow keep enough crosses around the house, you're a good Christian, is idolatry. Or banking on that for salvation. That's missing the point.

In short, its thinking that ANYTHING MATERIAL--behaviors, concepts (the word "God" is not God), or objects--will ultimately save you, I would consider idolatry.

Of course, that's a damned pressuring definition, with big implications...

 

[80sU2isBest]

The Self we all have that is afraid to die did not exist within Jesus.

When we try to understand Jesus by projecting ourselves onto him, we fail. People who have not humbled themselves to this fact one way or the other are guilty of idol worship, because it is still a selfish motive.

If the best relationship we can muster with Christ is from a sense of duty, obligation, or social norms, we are guilty of idol worship.

People who condemn others/feel superior to others who do not believe in Christ are guilty of idol worship, because they have appropriated him for their own egos, and do not understand his unconditional love.

Thinking that if you somehow keep enough crosses around the house, you're a good Christian, is idolatry. Or banking on that for salvation. That's missing the point.

In short, its thinking that ANYTHING MATERIAL--behaviors, concepts (the word "God" is not God), or objects--will ultimately save you, I would consider idolatry.

Of course, that's a damned pressuring definition, with big implications...

Man, that is some good truth you are speaking there. GOOD TRUTH.

 

[AcrobatMan]

>>Is God against religions that practice idol worship?

What a joke ?

You cant be serious...

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Do you have a valid comment, or are you on a campaign to harass?

 

[U2DMfan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is God against religions that practice id

New International Version 'student'.

But I just looked online, and I've seen both, sorta. Some end and start up again but in third person.

But the two Bible's I have(the other I couldn't give you the version of, the spine is worn and I can't find in anywhere) it's not in red.

I have the revised standard version, which I believe is much more trustworthy than the King James Version which has been picked apart by many biblical scholars to have numerous translation errors, do a google search if any of you wish to read more about these problems.

Anyhow, point is, my revised standard version has that John 3 quote from 10-15 and stopping.

I have nothing more to add other than I would echo Dr Lemonseed and say that he/she has some outstanding viewpoints.

 

[AcrobatMan]

Do you have a valid comment, or are you on a campaign to harass?

Tell me if the below makes any sense

"Is God against religions that believes in celebration of Christmas ?"

Plain joke isnt it ...Do you want to discuss it..

I have found this thread offensive as it is targetting a group of religions which believe in idol worship.

This thread is intended to tell that ...hey this religion is better than that...and whether God favors members of some particular religions as against other religions...

And when I tell this ..I am accused of talking non-sense..

Just because I believe that all people - religious and non-religious...are equal...no religion is better than other... You think
this is an invalid comment...

And excuse me..I am not harassing anyone.

 

[Angela Harlem]

If Dr Lemonseed writes the truth, then Acrobat Man is completely correct.
Which I reckon he is anyway, valid at least. Yet it never bothers (or seems to bother) religious folk that it is offensive.

 

[the soul waits]

I have only very recently discovered God and am now reading books about the Bible, eventually leading upto reading the Bible again itself (I've read it over 10 years ago and never quite studied it).

Having said that, I just wanted to comment on the fact that I was agnostic untill only recently (say 1-2 months ago even!) and somehow, God showed Himself to me and I feel blessed.

I respect the knowledge on the Bible a lot of posters here have but at the same time, am kind of distressed with the demeanor some here show to know perfectly well how the Bible is to be interpreted.
I guess I'm seeing a lack of being humble and a lack of respect for the fact that noone will really know untill our days here are over.
I am awed by God's Grace, that's for sure, and it came so unexpected that I am FAR from having any kind of theory of who/when/why will go to Heaven.

 

[AcrobatMan]

I have only very recently discovered God and am now reading books about the Bible, eventually leading upto reading the Bible again itself (I've read it over 10 years ago and never quite studied it).

Having said that, I just wanted to comment on the fact that I was agnostic untill only recently (say 1-2 months ago even!) and somehow, God showed Himself to me and I feel blessed.

I respect the knowledge on the Bible a lot of posters here have but at the same time, am kind of distressed with the demeanor some here show to know perfectly well how the Bible is to be interpreted.
I guess I'm seeing a lack of being humble and a lack of respect for the fact that noone will really know untill our days here are over.
I am awed by God's Grace, that's for sure, and it came so unexpected that I am FAR from having any kind of theory of who/when/why will go to Heaven.

 

[verte]

For the record "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for God. You wouldn't expect someone whose first language is Arabic to use the English "God"? The French use dieu, the Germans use Gott, other people use their own language. Even some Arabic Christians refer to the Christian God as "Allah", according to some Arabic Christians on a listserver I'm on. It's a language thing, not necessarily a Christian or Muslim thing.