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Old 04-27-2005, 04:50 PM   #166
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Originally posted by shart1780
People who openly and blatantly disregard some of the Lord's most important teachings obviously aren't christians, and will have no place in Heaven.
Like "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? Or is that not "important"?

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Old 04-27-2005, 04:53 PM   #167
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Originally posted by shart1780


It's not measurable like that. A true christian will strive to follow all of the commandments. If your heart truly belongs to God you won't totally disregard one of the lords commandments. Will all christians follow every commandment? No. But the sign of a true christian is the DESIRE to.

People who openly and blatantly disregard some of the Lord's most important teachings obviously aren't christians, and will have no place in Heaven.

God judges the heart, he doesn't count up your rights and wrongs.
You're skirting the question. You spoke earlier how some will be rewarded more than others. Yet now you keep avoiding this. I'm interested in how this works.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:24 PM   #168
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I'm not 100% sure how he measures it, I'm not God. God judges your heart and how much love you have for him and he decides from there I suppose. Those who have an extremely strong personal relationship with God, who do good deeds in God's name to advance the kingdom of Heaven, those who do good in the church, those who bring others to Christ... there's alot of things you can do that God finds redemption in, but it all leads back to your personal relationship to him, because works without faith get you nowhere! Works and obedience are just a sign of your faith.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:37 PM   #169
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Originally posted by shart1780
I'm not 100% sure how he measures it, I'm not God. God judges your heart and how much love you have for him and he decides from there I suppose. Those who have an extremely strong personal relationship with God, who do good deeds in God's name to advance the kingdom of Heaven, those who do good in the church, those who bring others to Christ... there's alot of things you can do that God finds redemption in, but it all leads back to your personal relationship to him, because works without faith get you nowhere! Works and obedience are just a sign of your faith.
Yes I know all of this, but I guess you're not going to answer my question. Here's the deal. I've seen some of your posts throughout this forum and another, you spout off a lot of judgements and a lot of BS. None of which you can back up Biblically and it gets old. So I just ask that next time you say this person isn't saved or this person will be rewarded more handsomely try and have something to back it up. Thanks.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:39 PM   #170
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Originally posted by Do Miss America


You're skirting the question. You spoke earlier how some will be rewarded more than others. Yet now you keep avoiding this. I'm interested in how this works.
Scripture refers to both receiving "crowns" in Heaven, but also to casting those crowns before the feet of the Almighty. So, there really are no "rewards" as we think in worldly terms. Anything we have or get is given back to God.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:44 PM   #171
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Originally posted by Do Miss America


Yes I know all of this, but I guess you're not going to answer my question. Here's the deal. I've seen some of your posts throughout this forum and another, you spout off a lot of judgements and a lot of BS. None of which you can back up Biblically and it gets old. So I just ask that next time you say this person isn't saved or this person will be rewarded more handsomely try and have something to back it up. Thanks.
I don't understand what else you want me to say. If Jesus says that he's the only way to Heaven, doesn't that mean he's the only way to Heaven?
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:47 PM   #172
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Scripture refers to both receiving "crowns" in Heaven, but also to casting those crowns before the feet of the Almighty. So, there really are no "rewards" as we think in worldly terms. Anything we have or get is given back to God.
This is how I've always understood it. The idea that some will have more than others in Heaven is a ridiculous idea and I've only seen scripture that's to the contrary.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:47 PM   #173
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Shart, I think she's questioning you and your own words. Not a scripture quote.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:54 PM   #174
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Originally posted by shart1780


I don't understand what else you want me to say. If Jesus says that he's the only way to Heaven, doesn't that mean he's the only way to Heaven?
That's not what I'm talking about at all. Why are you acting like you don't know? I'm talking about the whole idea that you think you know who will be rewarded more and who will be rewarded less in Heaven, and who amongst those that have accepted Jesus are or aren't saved.

I don't know how I can make it any clearer.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:22 PM   #175
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Originally posted by shart1780
I'm not 100% sure how he measures it, I'm not God. God judges your heart and how much love you have for him and he decides from there I suppose. ....because works without faith get you nowhere! Works and obedience are just a sign of your faith.
I'm glad you said these two things.

God knows what's written on your heart no one else. And actions alone can't get you into Heaven. Therefore actions alone can't condemn you either.

So if actions alone can't condemn you and only God knows what's written on our hearts, then how the hell can any human judge another "righteously"? This is what I don't get about judgemental "Christians", they speak from 2 sides of their mouths.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:32 PM   #176
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I have statements similar to Mr. Hasan's beliefs. I have also studied with American Muslim turned Christian pastor. I'll look for his materials, but they clearly debunk Mr. Hasan's assertions.
Asma Gull Hasan is a young woman, and a practicing American Muslim. She's written several books and contributes to beliefnet.

I just finished reading 8 books on Islam that state exactly what I and others have repeated over and over. Don't take this the wrong way, but a Muslim who has converted to Christianity is not the most unbiased source you can study about Islam. I really suggest you read Hasan's book, which is directed towards a Christian audience. I have a copy you're more than welcome to.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:46 PM   #177
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Originally posted by shart1780
I don't understand what else you want me to say. If Jesus says that he's the only way to Heaven, doesn't that mean he's the only way to Heaven?
I've been trying hard to stay out of this one, but here goes anyway.

The answer to your question is no. If Jesus is quoted in a book (which some believe, but others do not) that he is the only way to Heaven, it does not (even if he really said it) mean that he is the only way to heaven. It may mean that he claimed to be the only way to heaven, but it does not, in itself, mean that it is true.

I think, at this point, that we should go back to first principles, and establish some rational, scienctific, evidence for this place you call "heaven".
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Old 04-27-2005, 09:10 PM   #178
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I've been trying hard to stay out of this one, but here goes anyway.

The answer to your question is no. If Jesus is quoted in a book (which some believe, but others do not) that he is the only way to Heaven, it does not (even if he really said it) mean that he is the only way to heaven. It may mean that he claimed to be the only way to heaven, but it does not, in itself, mean that it is true.

I think, at this point, that we should go back to first principles, and establish some rational, scienctific, evidence for this place you call "heaven".
I'm not asking non-christians what they believe. If you don't even claim to believe in the Bible I don't expect you to accept that Jesus is the only way, or a way at all.

And there is no scientific evidence that there's a Heaven or a Hell. I never needed any to believe in it, while you might.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:34 PM   #179
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Like "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? Or is that not "important"?

Melon
Thank you, Melon.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:35 PM   #180
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Originally posted by Do Miss America


I'm glad you said these two things.

God knows what's written on your heart no one else. And actions alone can't get you into Heaven. Therefore actions alone can't condemn you either.

So if actions alone can't condemn you and only God knows what's written on our hearts, then how the hell can any human judge another "righteously"? This is what I don't get about judgemental "Christians", they speak from 2 sides of their mouths.
And thank you, DMA.
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