Is France Bashing Unwarranted?

[Dreadsox]

I think we were told this is off topic.

 

[Dreadsox]

Dreadsox,

"Sting, I think you have typed this to me before. I know your opinion, and I disagree with it. Anything new to add to this?"

So are you implying that I can't respond to something you posted? Did you ever come up with a number of countries that in your view would represent a "proper" occupation force? Is it more than the four countries that occupied Germany after World War II? Or the single country that occupied Japan after World War II?

#1 Never said do not respond to me. Just tired of the same response.

#2 My number of people in a coalition has nothing to do with why this is or is not a true coalition that would satisfy me. We debated this before, weeks before the war. You and I see differently on this issue.

#3 There is not even a remote comparison between WWII and this situation in my opinion.

If I could PM or IM you I would gladly discuss things, but I have said before it is getting boring in here arguing about the same old things.

 

[STING2]

Dreadsox,

"#1 Never said do not respond to me. Just tired of the same response."

Think for a second about what I was responding to and whether it was new and original in its overall sentiment.

 

[Desert_Sky]

Hey
I'm kinda late into this thread so i do apologise, but i just want to point out a few points, that i don't think have been mentioned. People were saying about the boycotting of French products, well recently the French boycotted our beef, as a nation, because they thought they were all going to get BSE and mad cow disease, even though thee is no real proven link and most of our country still eat our beef. This obviously damaged many livelihoods of our farmers - and not to mention it was a breach of EU law...where the French refused to pay the fine, up until the point where the fine was demanded - and thus they lifted the ban. The point raised is that people may condone the banning of some french products - but here they did itto us. Don't get me wrong, i'm not supporting any of it, just making the point. But it does raise the question of the EU - and who wants to join a so called 'super state' where the countries are constantly breaking the rules? (again, we may have broken the rules before...i'm not singalling out just France)

Also, i have read recently during the 'war' how some french 'people' drew a nazi sign on the graves of allied soldiers in France - and also put something along the lines of 'these bodies plague our soil'.......well quite frankly i found that disgusting.
Anyway, sorry if i've gone off topic, and i want to stress i'm not being anti-french - i'm just pointing out these things for the debate

 

[verte76]

Right before the war some idiot hacked into a French-owned figure skating site. I suspected the shenanigans were politically motivated. This is the kind of thing that reallly stank as a result of the dispute because figure skating has nothing to do with politics. The site was dedicated to a Bulgarian ice dance team and Bulgaria supported the war. But the site had nothing to do with wars, UN resolutions, etc, etc. If you choose not to drink French wine or whatever that's your business. Hacking into a site that has nothing to do with politics is something else. It stinks.

 

[u2popmofo]

I think we need to avoid confusing the ordinary French people and their government.

Very good point.

Honestly, bashing of the French has been prevalent FAR before any of these recent events happened. It's not like all the jokes/comments directed at them arose from the recent political disagreements between the U.S. and France, I'd say most all of them came far before that. Sadly, the recent disagreements just reiterated all of the stereotypes that most of the old jokes/bashing were about.

That being said, I'm sure they have a wide variety of U.S. bashing going on in their country too, I personally dont have any hard feelings towards the French because of that.

 

[verte76]

Nothing positive comes out of confusing the French people and the French government. Now some idiot has started posting obscene notes in a French-owned figure skating listserver. Damn. I'm suspicious that it's politics again. The list is owned by the same lady from Paris who owns that site. It's fd because she sure as heck isn't anti-American, about half the list is American. I'm annoyed at this.

 

[Mrs. Edge]

Yesterday on TV there was this Dennis Miller "comedy routine" if you could call it that. I'm not sure how old it is, but it's relatively recent. In it, he calls all the French "scumbags" and says the only problem in that is that it's insulting to bags of scum. The audience laughed and cheered uproariously.

It makse me totally ill.

 

[Atticus Finch]

I tend to enjoy Mr Dennis Miller.

Atticus

 

[Mrs. Edge]

Well the one very funny joke that he did make was that Bush surrounds himself with advisors in the same way that a hole surrounds itself with a doughnut.

 

[Atticus Finch]

See there. He is a humorous felllow that cannot be typecast..


Atticus.

 

[melon]

You know, I don't understand why this thread still exists. The war in Iraq and France's "obstructionism" are history. Before Iraq, it wasn't like France was America's best friends anyway. The Americans who still hate France hated France all along and the same with the French hating America.

What an utter non-issue...

Melon

 

[Atticus Finch]

I think France has behavior patterns.

Atticus.

 

[nbcrusader]

Now the term "e-mail" is not good enough for the French.

French Government Bans Term 'E-Mail'

PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail," the French government says, and hello "courriel" ? the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using to refer to electronic mail in official documents.

The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Now the term "e-mail" is not good enough for the French.

French Government Bans Term 'E-Mail'

I don't see why this is a problem. It's their language. They can use whatever terms they want. And quite frankly, I think that it's sorta admirable for the French to resist the Americanization of everything.

In 3 weeks, I'm going to be speaking French daily (Mali here I come) so I think if I can adjust to calling a computer "l'ordinateur", I can manage to learn a new term for email.

 

[pax]

France has long tried to avoid the over-Americanization of the French language. I remember learning this in my high school French class long before 9/11 or the Iraq conflict (this was...hmmm, I guess almost 5 years ago now, at least). So it's nothing new. And it's their language.

 

[STING2]

To anyone in France who wants to continue to use the term "E-mail" GO FOR IT! Don't let some politically correct stiff in Paris tell you what is or is not French. I think Snoop Dog could have some fun with this one.

 

[verte76]

Sting, the French language is an integral part of French culture. It's part of their identity. They banned the language of southern France in the Middle Ages, Occitan, in the sixteenth century. One country, one language! In the seventeenth century they set up the French Academy and proceded to kick out all alleged "italianisms" out of their language. This "e-mail" flap is not being "politically correct in France". It's "being in France" or "being French".

 

[nbcrusader]

Please. The responses to this article would be a 180 and flaming hot if the US tried to exclude the influence of another culture. But maybe it is our intellectual egoism that pats these other cultures on the head and says "lets keep you the way you are".

 

[ThatGuy]

Please. The responses to this article would be a 180 and flaming hot if the US tried to exclude the influence of another culture.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. France has a long history or trying to keep their langauge as "pure" as possible. This e-mail flap is not part of a new phenomenon. By contrast, American English is a hodgepodge of several languages, including an early form of French. If the US were to do something like this it would not be because it has a long history of doing so, and would therefore cause a different reponse.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Actually, I don't think there is any comparison. What we are talking about is a country with their own language making linguistic decisions over how they are going to refer to new terms and technology in THEIR language. It's not about cultural sensitivity. Who is there to be sensitive to? The inventor of "email"?

We change words into more pronounceable English translations all the time. I was reminded of this constantly while travelling in Europe. We call Wien, Vienna; Firenze, Florence; Koln, Cologne.

 

[nbcrusader]

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

That is why I broadened the scope of my response to "cultural influences" and not just language. I am well aware of France's historical desire to protect its language. It goes well beyond that.

 

[ThatGuy]

That is why I broadened the scope of my response to "cultural influences" and not just language. I am well aware of France's historical desire to protect its language. It goes well beyond that.

Yes, but that's changing the argument. You can argue the general point, but then it loses all relevance to the point at hand. France is not simply attempting to limit "cultural influences." It is trying to keep its language as pure as possible, something it has a history of doing. Your attempt to generalize the specific incident makes your argument as relevant as one that is hypothetical.

 

[STING2]

So are French citizens who continue to use the term "E-mail" somehow less French? Did the French PEOPLE by popular vote decide to not use the term "E-mail". I'm sure there are plenty of French people who are not at all concerned about this and will probably continue to use the term "E-mail".

 

[ThatGuy]

I'm sure there are plenty of French people who are not at all concerned about this and will probably continue to use the term "E-mail".

I'm sure you're right.

 

[BVS]

You know this whole thing is pretty sad. Some people are going to see this as a slap in the face, some are going to see it as hypocritical. But when it comes down to it, it's nothing. As diverse as we try to pride ourselves on here in America it's nothing. Who cares?

The sad thing is when I traveled to France, Germany, Italy, Czech, etc. three years ago I could always go to a restaurant or bar where they spoke English. Not that that is sad in it's own right, it's sad that it's not reciprocal. These major cities in these countries almost require their employees to speak English as their second language just to cater to us. We don't do this. I've lived in some major attraction cities and I've never had to speak another language for tourists. It's like we expect it of other countries, but we don't give it back. It's arrogance. I applaud them for wanting to keep their langauge pure, and who are we to care.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

The sad thing is when I traveled to France, Germany, Italy, Czech, etc. three years ago I could always go to a restaurant or bar where they spoke English. Not that that is sad in it's own right, it's sad that it's not reciprocal. These major cities in these countries almost require their employees to speak English as their second language just to cater to us. We don't do this. I've lived in some major attraction cities and I've never had to speak another language for tourists. It's like we expect it of other countries, but we don't give it back. It's arrogance. I applaud them for wanting to keep their langauge pure, and who are we to care.

Oh, no, when any people from other countries come here we practically demand they learn English, a lot of people don't even take the time to try and learn at least a little bit of another language for any non-English speaking people who come here. And I think that sucks. I remember I had a friend in middle school who moved here from Mexico, and it was really hard for her at first, and so I decided to learn some Spanish so that I could understand her and her family or any other people that I meet that were from Mexico.

I should try and learn some other languages, too, come to think of it. I know that people who live near Vermont speak French, so I'm gonna need to learn some French when I move there.

But anyway, you make a great point-they learn English so that they can understand us. Why can't people here do the same?

Angela

 

[Elvis]

You know this whole thing is pretty sad. Some people are going to see this as a slap in the face, some are going to see it as hypocritical. But when it comes down to it, it's nothing. As diverse as we try to pride ourselves on here in America it's nothing. Who cares?

The sad thing is when I traveled to France, Germany, Italy, Czech, etc. three years ago I could always go to a restaurant or bar where they spoke English. Not that that is sad in it's own right, it's sad that it's not reciprocal. These major cities in these countries almost require their employees to speak English as their second language just to cater to us. We don't do this. I've lived in some major attraction cities and I've never had to speak another language for tourists. It's like we expect it of other countries, but we don't give it back. It's arrogance. I applaud them for wanting to keep their langauge pure, and who are we to care.

You haven't lived/been in southern California have you? lol.

At most places of business, there are people covering several major languages.

Side note:
In high school, I had taken Latin, yes Latin. Anyway... I worked in a toy store and we often had tourists from Brasil... that spoke Portugese... some how I mangled their Porutgese and my Latin together...and sold them lots of American toys