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Old 05-11-2003, 08:27 PM   #46
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Saddam started to destroy his rockets - we needed the presence of the military in the golf region for that, it was good to raise presure - but when it started to work out (read UN documents) it was the wrong moment to cancel further UN actions and start a war.
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Old 05-11-2003, 11:49 PM   #47
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Klaus,

"Saddam started to destroy his rockets - we needed the presence of the military in the golf region for that, it was good to raise presure - but when it started to work out (read UN documents) it was the wrong moment to cancel further UN actions and start a war."

Sorry but the destruction of the rockets that just happened to be a few miles over the limit is not 100% COMPLIANCE! It is not even close. The UN documents demand 100% compliance. Where are the 30,000 chemical/Bio shells, where are the 10,000 liters of Anthrax. These are things Iraq had in 1998, where are they now!?

Saddam's piece meal tactics of cheat and retreat is what the destruction of the rockets represents. Its like if you came to my house looking for the machine guns and I gave you all the butter knives I had.

The fact remains and its sad so few understand it, Saddam could have rolled out every single piece of his WMD program onto and airfield for the inspectors to look at, take away, or destroy. That is what Saddam has been obligated to do since 1991. Instead, he plays the game of, give a little in order to hide a lot.
Failure to comply fully and immediately is why the war was necessary. At no time has Saddam shown that he was willing to cooperate fully 100%. At no time have the UN inspectors been able to disarm Saddam 100%, not even close.

How far away was Saddam from building a Nuclear Weapon? No one knows for sure, but the point is, taking a chance on more inspections which require more time and have so far failed in the #1 task(100% compliance), is more time Saddam could use to build a nuclear weapon which would radically change any military engagement and may in fact prevent the UN from ever accomplishing its #1 goal in Iraq.

Saddam was never going to comply 100% which is why the inspections after the first few years became a waste of time. No rational person looking at Saddams prior behavior could ever believe that he would cooperate 100%. Even with a full scale military invasion, Saddam never said, "wait, I'm going to cooperate now"! Operation Iraqi Freedom and Saddams behavior despite that operation, is the proof that the peaceful disarmament of Iraq was impossible. Since Saddam was unwilling to give in to a military invasion, what makes you think he would of given up to unarmed UN inspectors 6 months, a year, or two years from now, or ever?
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Old 05-12-2003, 04:49 AM   #48
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Where are the 30,000 chemical/Bio shells, where are the 10,000 liters of Anthrax. These are things Iraq had in 1998, where are they now!?
Good question. Do you expect the US military to find these weapons, and if so, what would be a reasonable time-scale for them to find the weapons in? Also, do you think it would be appropriate for UN weapons inspectors to take over weapons inspections, considering that you believe the war was endorsed by the UN via resolution 1441.
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Old 05-12-2003, 09:35 PM   #49
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Fizzing,

"Good question. Do you expect the US military to find these weapons, and if so, what would be a reasonable time-scale for them to find the weapons in? Also, do you think it would be appropriate for UN weapons inspectors to take over weapons inspections, considering that you believe the war was endorsed by the UN via resolution 1441."

I do expect the US military to eventially find these weapons. I do not know when. But what the US military has done that the UN inspectors were unable to do, is insure that the Iraqi military and Saddams regime were disarmed of such weapons. The US military accomplished in 3 weeks what UN inspectors failed to do in 12 years! Where the WMD is buried is a big question. But Saddams regime and military can no longer dig up and use such WMD because Saddams regime and military no longer exists!

UN resolution 1441 authorized the military to ensure the disarmament of Iraq if Saddam failed to cooperate. When Iraq failed to cooperate, peaceful inspections came to an end and it became the military's job to insure that Iraq was disarmed and find the weapons. The UN already has inspectors on the ground in the form of American, British and Australian troops. There is no need to send in civilian inspectors for a job that has long since passed. This is a military operation in addition to being an inspection and verification process.
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Old 05-13-2003, 05:22 AM   #50
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STING2: fact 1: UN inspectors found and destroyed WMDs in these 12 years

fact 2: even if the US inspectors do a great job and find the stuff they were looking fore, some people will trust UN inspectors more then US inspectors because they'll think that the WMDs or mobile factories might be planted

fact 3: we have internationally verry different opinions about the legimation of this war, rewriting your interpretation in every thread won't convince many people

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Old 05-13-2003, 07:32 PM   #51
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Klaus,


"fact 1: UN inspectors found and destroyed WMDs in these 12 years"

"fact 2: even if the US inspectors do a great job and find the stuff they were looking fore, some people will trust UN inspectors more then US inspectors because they'll think that the WMDs or mobile factories might be planted"

"fact 3: we have internationally verry different opinions about the legimation of this war, rewriting your interpretation in every thread won't convince many people"

Fact 1: UN inspectors found and destroyed WMDs in the past 12 years that SADDAM let them find and destroy!

Fact 2: US, British, and Australian soldiers have been given the task to disarm Iraq through military force by the UN. Other member states could have joined the operation but they decided not to. The peaceful inspection process was over months ago, it required the full cooperation of Saddam for it to work. That never happened. Thats why the military operation to disarm Saddam was necessary. The people who make claims about the planting of evidence could make those claims regardless of the situation. Their claims are baseless and unfounded. I'm sure O.J. Simpson would not mind having them on his defense team though.

In response to "Fact 3": neither will yours. All I am doing is responding to comments made by other people in the same thread. If they state their opinion on a particular topic, I have every right to state mine.
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Old 05-14-2003, 09:19 AM   #52
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Off topic!

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Old 05-14-2003, 09:42 PM   #53
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I don't know if this is on topic either, Angela, but it's about French politics. Well, sort of. I just got a report from the Simon Weisenthal Center about the alarming number of anti-Semitic incidents in France. The leaders of the Center went to Paris and had a meeting with Chirac. They asked him to crack down on anti-Semitic hate crimes in France. There is a list of these incidents in the report. The report says that the situation got worse during the dispute with the U.S. and Britain over Iraq. The incidents are truly ugly and sickening and I hope this insanity can be stopped.
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Old 05-15-2003, 04:24 PM   #54
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Originally posted by STING2

... The UN already has inspectors on the ground in the form of American, British and Australian troops.

Hmm, I wonder if in the UN they are aware that American and British troops happen to be their inspectors I guess it is also written in 1441 or somewhere else...
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Old 05-18-2003, 05:11 PM   #55
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Off topic!

I might put that in my sig
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Old 05-18-2003, 06:18 PM   #56
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Hmm, I wonder if in the UN they are aware that American and British troops happen to be their inspectors I guess it is also written in 1441 or somewhere else...
Yes, Alex, the UN is in charge. We have been working through the UN and represent the UN in Iraq. That is why the UN now in Iraq, will not let the UN Inspectors back in. They are already there because the US is the UN and so forth and so on.

Peace
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Old 05-18-2003, 09:44 PM   #57
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Dreadsox,

"Yes, Alex, the UN is in charge. We have been working through the UN and represent the UN in Iraq. That is why the UN now in Iraq, will not let the UN Inspectors back in. They are already there because the US is the UN and so forth and so on."

Correction, the USA, United Kingdom, and Australia are the only nations in the UN that agreed to participate in the UN military disarmament of Iraq. Peaceful inspections ended months ago. The operation to ensure that Iraq is disarmed is a military one now being performed by the member states of the USA, United Kingdom and Australia. If thats to small a number of nations for the operation then I wonder where all the criticism of other UN operations that only have ONE nation involved are.
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Old 05-18-2003, 11:57 PM   #58
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Sting, I think you have typed this to me before. I know your opinion, and I disagree with it. Anything new to add to this?
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Old 05-19-2003, 12:10 AM   #59
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Apologies for continuing to go off topic. Good thread NB.
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Old 05-19-2003, 03:29 AM   #60
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Dreadsox,

"Sting, I think you have typed this to me before. I know your opinion, and I disagree with it. Anything new to add to this?"

So are you implying that I can't respond to something you posted? Did you ever come up with a number of countries that in your view would represent a "proper" occupation force? Is it more than the four countries that occupied Germany after World War II? Or the single country that occupied Japan after World War II?
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