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Old 09-19-2004, 03:48 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn


How can it do that? This is a resolution for the Security Council. One of the countries that is a permanent member there, the US, is also the country that invaded Iraq. Would it vote against its own actions? Don't think so. So a resolution is useless from the start, because of the US veto.

C ya!

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The UN does it all the time against Israel! The fact that the United States is a permanent member of the Security council has not stopped the United Nations at all from voting on all kinds of resolutions against Israel, so this idea that the UN would not vote on a resolution in this case because the USA is a permanent member is baseless.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:25 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Did I claim to be more than one person?
not that I'm aware of, but that's not what I meant
it just seems interesting to me is that you present a case which according to you shows why the war against Iraq was a legal one and at the same time you write off Kofi Anan's statement as a mere one man's opinion

apart from the fact that Anan in his position can't afford to just throw opinions based on nothing into the media (especially on this issue) it would be odd if your interpretations on how to follow up on past UN resolutions are closer to an absolute truth than Kofi Anan's interpretation
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Old 09-20-2004, 08:30 AM   #93
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Originally posted by Hawk269


If this were a true "coalition" right now, then why have the deaths BY FAR been AMERICAN SOLDIERS?! Here are the stats of your "coalition":

UNITED STATES 1,028 DEAD
ALL OTHER COUNTRIES 134 DEAD

Let's do the math, shall we? That's 88% of the dead! Call it a hunch, but WWII's coalition was not so lop-sided. So, let's not make the mistake of equating the two.
Look at the $$$ spent by each country on military, and you will discover that the percentages are not out of line.
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Old 09-20-2004, 03:48 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
not that I'm aware of, but that's not what I meant
it just seems interesting to me is that you present a case which according to you shows why the war against Iraq was a legal one and at the same time you write off Kofi Anan's statement as a mere one man's opinion

apart from the fact that Anan in his position can't afford to just throw opinions based on nothing into the media (especially on this issue) it would be odd if your interpretations on how to follow up on past UN resolutions are closer to an absolute truth than Kofi Anan's interpretation
Your attempting to make a case that Kofi Anan is the one that decides whether or not something is legal. That could not be further from the truth. Kofi Anan is not on the Security Council. He does not have a vote.

In addition, my opinion is not based on nothing if that is what you are suggesting.

Kofi Anan has yet to explain why if the war was illegal, the UN would pass three different resolutions authorizing the occupation. In addition, if the war was illegal, where is the resolution condemning the action?

If you want an example of an illegal war and how the UN reacts to an illegal war, please examine Saddam's 1990 invasion of Kuwait.
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Old 09-20-2004, 07:18 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Look at the $$$ spent by each country on military, and you will discover that the percentages are not out of line.
Exactly. You are proving my point for me. If this were a true coalition, the human AND financial BURDEN would be shared more equitably. Instead, AMERICAN lives and AMERICAN money are bearing the burden with little contribution from other countries.

AJ
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Old 09-20-2004, 07:46 PM   #96
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Originally posted by Hawk269


Exactly. You are proving my point for me. If this were a true coalition, the human AND financial BURDEN would be shared more equitably. Instead, AMERICAN lives and AMERICAN money are bearing the burden with little contribution from other countries.

AJ
Well, can you provide any historical examples of a "true coalition" as you define it since World War II?

Which countries do you think should contribute military forces in order to make the coalition a "true coalition"? How many military units from these countries do you feel they should contribute?

I ask these specific questions because it is easy to simply claim that the coalition in Iraq is not a "true Coalition" without realistically explaining what would be a true coalition based on the realities of the size and capability of other non-participating countries military forces.
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Old 09-20-2004, 08:45 PM   #97
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WWII, just a rough go over of major Allied Powers.

USSR Millitary Casualtes - 11,000,000 (Britannica)

France Millitary Casualties - 200,000
(Britannica)

United Kingdom - 265,000
(Britannica)

United States of America - 292,000
(Britannica)

Total Allied Casualties (for these bulk powers)
11,757,000

% Soviet = 93%

Hmmm, so it would seem that the casualties for the Iraq war are less "lop-sided" than those of the European Theater of WWII. Fascinating
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:55 PM   #98
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to me the fact that a government's stance on the war against Iraq plays a roll in how people vote in elections in a lot of european countries shows that it at least didn't make the coalition stronger (opposed to what normally would be the case since it tends to increase a sense of unity)

Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Your attempting to make a case that Kofi Anan is the one that decides whether or not something is legal. That could not be further from the truth. Kofi Anan is not on the Security Council. He does not have a vote.

In addition, my opinion is not based on nothing if that is what you are suggesting.
personally I think your case is a pretty strong one
it shows why the UN should have acted in the matter Iraq a lot sooner

I didn't say Anan is the one who gets to decide what's legal or not
just that due to his position his statement can't just be regarded as just one man's opinion
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Old 09-21-2004, 05:06 AM   #99
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661976.stm

Quote:
He (Anan) has carefully avoided the word (illegal) before.

His previous phrasing was to say that the war was "not in conformity with the UN Charter".

...

BBC: "So you don't think there was legal authority for the war."

Mr Annan: "I have made it clear, I have stated clearly, that it was not in conformity with the UN Charter."

BBC: "It was illegal."

Mr Annan: "Yes, if you wish."

BBC: "It was illegal."

Mr Annan: "Yes, I've indicated that it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."

...

So why does he think it illegal?

In the interview, he remarked that Resolution 1441, passed on 8 November 2002, warned Iraq that there would be "serious consequences" if it did not comply with UN demands over its suspected weapons programmes.

Mr Annan said it should have been left to the UN Security Council, in a second resolution, to determine what those consequences were.

The United States and Britain argued they were carrying out the wishes of the Security Council and that their authority was based not just on Resolution 1441, but on previous UN resolutions.

The British Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, issued a public statement of his outline argument, though he did not publish, or even give the members of the cabinet, his detailed reasoning.

He said the original Resolution 678 from 1990, which allowed for "all necessary means" to end Iraq's occupation of Kuwait and "restore international peace and security" in the region, still applied.

It had been, he said, "revived" by Resolution 687 from 1991, which demanded that Iraq disarm. Since Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in breach of Resolution 687, the attorney general argued, there was authority to use force.
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