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Old 12-12-2003, 11:50 AM   #1
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Is Dean Really Your Best Bet?

DEAN IN FOR N.H. BUSH-WHACKING: POLL

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December 12, 2003 -- WASHINGTON - A stunning new poll shows President Bush would clobber Democratic front-runner Howard Dean by nearly 2-1 in politically potent New Hampshire - even though Dean has a giant lead over Democratic rivals in the state.
Bush gets 57 percent to Dean's 30 percent among registered voters in the American Research Group poll. In fact, Dean, from neighboring Vermont, does worse in the Granite State than a generic "Democratic Party nominee" who loses to Bush by 51 to 34 percent. Another ARG poll this month showed Dean with a 30-point lead over Sen. John Kerry (Mass.) for the Jan. 27 New Hampshire primary, the second test after the Jan. 19 Iowa caucuses.

The new poll seems sure to fuel claims by rivals that Dean would be another George McGovern debacle for Democrats in the general election.
note: I place little value in polls - they just make good starting points for discussion
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:11 PM   #2
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im sending Dean more money
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:12 PM   #3
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btw-
what does "stunning" and "clobber" mean?

db3
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:14 PM   #4
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This is why Dean hasn't really broken away from the pack. There is indeed terror in some Democratic camps that he'll get creamed in the general election, particularly here in the South.
Not that I really believe that much in polls, though, either. People can always change their minds/votes before the votes are cast. Those are the only polls that matter.
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:17 PM   #5
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stunning/clobber
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:18 PM   #6
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I am both curious and scared of Dean
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:22 PM   #7
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Originally posted by Northeast
I am both curious and scared of Dean

i see him as an oddity.:
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:25 PM   #8
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the news is getting better..



Nader eyeing another White House run
From Phil Hirschkorn
CNN


PRINCETON, New Jersey (CNN) --Consumer advocate Ralph Nader said Thursday he is leaning toward another independent run for the presidency and will make his decision public in January.

"We're testing the waters," Nader said in an interview with CNN. "It's a high probability but that is yet to be determined."

Nader has formed an exploratory committee for a 2004 run and said he would gauge his support through the success of fund-raising efforts and the number of volunteers who come forward.

The consumer advocate last made a bid for the White House in 2000 on the Green Party ticket, when he won about 3 percent of the popular vote nationwide and got 5 percent or more in 12 states.

In fact, some Democrats blamed Nader, 69, for siphoning off votes that might have gone to Democratic candidate Al Gore, especially in the hard-fought state of Florida, where Nader took 97,000 votes.

"Gore beat Gore," Nader says to those charges. "He didn't get Tennessee, his home state. That would have made him president. And he blundered in Florida and didn't ask for a statewide recount."

"I would say to Democratic voters the following: If you think that a third party candidacy is going to take away votes and cost the Democrats the election, you've got the power entirely within your own franchise when you go to the voting booth and vote for the Democrats," Nader added.

He said if he were to run, he would focus his efforts on the third of the electorate that's not aligned with either party and with the 100 million adults who are non-voters.

Nader was in Princeton Thursday for a strategy session with Green Party activists to consider the pros and cons of another race.

He said his decision will be twofold: whether to run for the presidency at all, and whether to run again on the Green Party ticket.

Meanwhile, the party is divided on another Nader candidacy.

Green Party member Larry Barnett, the former mayor of Sonoma, California, and now a member of its city council, said the party's priority should be defeating George W. Bush.

"Any diversion from that, even rooted in principle, interferes with that goal," he said, explaining why he's against another Nader run.

"I would urge him to throw his weight behind whoever the Democratic Party puts up," Barnett said.

In assessing the current field of presidential hopefuls, Nader said he supports some of their platforms, but something's missing.

"I like some of the things that the Democratic candidates are saying, but you have to hold their feet to the fire," he said. "Sometimes that requires competing candidacies, greater choice and breaking up that exclusionary presidential debate organization."

In the 2000 campaign, both Nader and independent candidate Pat Buchanan were excluded from the fall presidential debates between Gore and Bush.

"I think there's a great need for a progressive candidate for the presidency," Nader said. "The two parties are very much dialing for the same commercial dollars. The two parties are ignoring issues like a living wage."

In the 2000 race, Nader raised $8 million. He said if he mounts another campaign he hopes to raise between $5 million and $10 million.

Another factor in his decision will be how the two main parties respond to a 25-page agenda he has sent to them, to determine whether they are addressing issues he believes are important.

"One of the justifications for this campaign is to preserve and expand the right of third parties and independent candidates to challenge the two-party duopoly system," Nader said. "I see it as a civil liberties issue of free speech."

CNN's Kelly Wallace contributed to this report.
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:39 PM   #9
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wink

All that poll proves is that there are a bunch of crazy people in NH

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Old 12-12-2003, 12:48 PM   #10
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Give it up Ralph Nader. You're just going to steal more votes from the Democratic Candidate. You have no chance at winning. So stop meddling! You're giving GW a free ticket to his own sequel at the White House!!
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:56 PM   #11
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I'm not sure I agree with the premise that Nader cost Gore the election. By and large the people who voted for Nader wouldn't have voted for the Gore/Lieberman ticket. I should know, both my sisters in NYC voted for Nader. I voted for Gore which was a bit of a joke electorally because my state, Alabama, was Bush/Dole country during the Clinton years. It hasn't gone to the Democrat since 1976. The Gore/Lieberman ticket was the most conservative Democratic ticket in 50+ years. Now the whole game is nuts because Gore has famously endorsed Dean and jilted his own running mate, Lieberman. Who knows how this damn thing is going to look like next year??
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:59 PM   #12
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Apparently Jennie Finch knows best
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Old 12-12-2003, 01:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that Nader cost Gore the election. By and large the people who voted for Nader wouldn't have voted for the Gore/Lieberman ticket. I should know, both my sisters in NYC voted for Nader. I voted for Gore which was a bit of a joke electorally because my state, Alabama, was Bush/Dole country during the Clinton years. It hasn't gone to the Democrat since 1976. The Gore/Lieberman ticket was the most conservative Democratic ticket in 50+ years. Now the whole game is nuts because Gore has famously endorsed Dean and jilted his own running mate, Lieberman. Who knows how this damn thing is going to look like next year??
Maybe you're right, but I still think that more liberals will vote for an independent candidate than more conservatives. I have a feeling the conservatives will stick with the conservative choice of Bush.
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Old 12-12-2003, 01:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that Nader cost Gore the election. By and large the people who voted for Nader wouldn't have voted for the Gore/Lieberman ticket.


The same theory was floated in the California recall election. Conventional wisdom said conservative McClintock would steal votes from moderate Schwarzenegger. The results speak for themselves.

Having McClintock in the race actually brought more people to the polls. Nader should help the Democrats by focusing on what is traditionally thought of as "democratic issues".
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Old 12-12-2003, 01:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
All that poll proves is that there are a bunch of crazy people in NH

Yup....i lived there for 25yrs...just moved to vt a few months ago...crazy here too!
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