Is Chavez a real threat or Schizophrenic

[Judah]

Here's another independent source. The Think Tank of Deutsche Bank Group...their numbers forecast into 2007; note the declining national debt trend, which shows gov't revenues from all the growth aren't only going into social programs or infrastructure spending. It's retiring some public debt also; exports/imports on the rise, etc., etc.

http://www.dbresearch.de/servlet/reweb2.ReWEB?rwkey=u1562196

 

[verte76]

Excellent! Venezuela is doing very well. No wonder Chavez is so popular!

 

[nbcrusader]

Interesting sets of contradictory information.

I noticed one article stated that Chavez's opponents controlled the media. Last week, a group from the Washington Post reported a troublesome consolidation of control over the media by Chavez.

Undoubtedly, we are dealing with truthiness - spawned by political agendas.

 

[verte76]

Most likely Chavez is your typical mixed bag leader. He has some good traits, and some bad ones. He's popular at home, but has some critics that he hasn't dealt with particularly well. He's done much for the poor but some of them are still getting a raw deal. He won his last election with international monitors in place. It's par for the course.

 

[financeguy]

bush & co. have already tried to oust him once. i don't think he is a threat or schizophrenic.

Yup.

 

[Se7en]

if anyone is really hard up to invade another country, perhaps consider dprk, and leave democratically elected leaders alone for the time being.

 

[verte76]

I say leave democratically elected leaders alone, period.

 

[nbcrusader]

I say leave democratically elected leaders alone, period.

Like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il, even Saddam Hussein?

What if people vote into power a terrorist organization like Hamas or Hezbollah?

 

[Judah]

Like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il, even Saddam Hussein?

What if people vote into power a terrorist organization like Hamas or Hezbollah?

Well, i think that's the issue many countries have with American policies: lack of a consistent approach to dealing with geopolitics...such as "dictators" or dodgy governments; i suppose, it's consistent for the U.S., because the main guiding principle is "whatever's in America's best interest."

Is the opposition to Hamas or Hezbollah on "moral" grounds or on "America's interest" grounds. Probably the latter, but it's usually couched or spun within the context of the former...and that's when it's an inconsistent approach, if one looks at America's past interactions with dictatorial regimes.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0429-05.htm

"The lesson is clear, if double-edged. America supports democracy when democracy supports America. But when there is no democracy, dictatorships will do just as well - and at times even better. The sticking point is not whether citizens of all nations have the right to choose their leaders, but whether leaders, freely elected or not, of any nation have the right to choose a course which runs against whatever the US perceives its interests to be at a given moment. "


http://www.omnicenter.org/warpeacecollection/dictators.htm

http://wais.stanford.edu/USA/us_supportforladictators8303.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

 

[INDY500]

Chavez labels his politics "21st century socialism." He denounces "U.S. capitalism and imperialism." He attacks the Roman Catholic Church in Venezuela. He supports the Kyoto Protocol and is one of the most vocal opponents of the war in Iraq.
No wonder he's the new darling of the American Left.

“No matter what the greatest tyrant in the world, the greatest terrorist in the world, George W. Bush says, we’re here to tell you: Not hundreds, not thousands, but millions of the American people ... support your revolution,” Belafonte told Chavez.

 

[Judah]

Chavez labels his politics "21st century socialism." He denounces "U.S. capitalism and imperialism." He attacks the Roman Catholic Church in Venezuela. He supports the Kyoto Protocol and is one of the most vocal opponents of the war in Iraq.
No wonder he's the new darling of the American Left.

America has a Left left?

 

[verte76]

Like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il, even Saddam Hussein?

What if people vote into power a terrorist organization like Hamas or Hezbollah?

The reason the Palestinians elected Hamas was because the ruling party, which I forget the name of, was hopelessly corrupt. I don't believe the Palestinians were specifically putting terrorists in power. They were rejecting corruption and sailing into a Brave New World, perhaps hoping that reality would moderate Hezbollah's views.

 

[Justin24]

 

[hiphop]

Thanks for the information. It is important to get a balanced look at any situation.

I agree, but why didn´t you get these sources yourself?

Your statements in this thread sound very contradictionary.

 

[AEON]

I say leave democratically elected leaders alone, period.

Hitler was elected

 

[hiphop]

Well, i think that's the issue many countries have with American policies: lack of a consistent approach to dealing with geopolitics...such as "dictators" or dodgy governments; i suppose, it's consistent for the U.S., because the main guiding principle is "whatever's in America's best interest."

Is the opposition to Hamas or Hezbollah on "moral" grounds or on "America's interest" grounds. Probably the latter, but it's usually couched or spun within the context of the former...and that's when it's an inconsistent approach, if one looks at America's past interactions with dictatorial regimes.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0429-05.htm

"The lesson is clear, if double-edged. America supports democracy when democracy supports America. But when there is no democracy, dictatorships will do just as well - and at times even better. The sticking point is not whether citizens of all nations have the right to choose their leaders, but whether leaders, freely elected or not, of any nation have the right to choose a course which runs against whatever the US perceives its interests to be at a given moment. "


http://www.omnicenter.org/warpeacecollection/dictators.htm

http://wais.stanford.edu/USA/us_supportforladictators8303.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

Thank you Judah.

That´s a lot of great info. Respect! I don´t have time to visit FYM a lot, so it is good to see someone is still doing the necessary independent work.

 

[verte76]

I agree, but why didn´t you get these sources yourself?

Your statements in this thread sound very contradictionary.

Well, I just stumbled into Justin's thread by accident. I wasn't thinking about the sources, I admit. I'm a real sucker. You can fool me to hell and back. Judah was familiar with some sources I wasn't familiar with. My statements are contradictory because I changed my mind upon being alerted to conflicting reports of Chavez' record and behavior. I'm actually not very familiar with Chavez, I haven't read much about him.

 

[Justin24]

Well I tried to present my view, I wanted you to form your own opionion.

 

[BVS]

No wonder he's the new darling of the American Left.

Wow your posts can be so enlightening sometimes, because I wasn't even aware.

I'm glad I know now.

 

[verte76]

Chavez is not exactly a household name in the United States. I, for one, knew nothing about the guy before I read this thread. I know a little bit now, and will investigate the matter further after I take a nap. Justin, I know you were just presenting me with something to think about, no offense taken.
Now for that nap...............my brain is fried.

 

[hiphop]

You can fool me to hell and back.

No way, you´re a great painter and insightful contributor to lots of threads here.

 

[verte76]

No way, you´re a great painter and insightful contributor to lots of threads here.

Thanks! That makes me feel better. I was feeling like an idiot after my posts in this thread. Oh, well, no one is perfect. Or, according to my belief system, the only perfect person to ever walk the planet died on a cross.

 

[verte76]

Hitler was elected

True. It's possible for electorates to screw up. It's possible for sleepy posters to screw up too.

 

[Justin24]

What I wan't to know Vert is with this "positive info" that is presented why do you all of a sudden take that side in stead of the middle ground, when we know he is up to know good.

 

[verte76]

What I wan't to know Vert is with this "positive info" that is presented why do you all of a sudden take that side in stead of the middle ground, when we know he is up to know good.

Well, apparently he is up to some good if he has a 77% approval rating, even considering the fact that some electorates make lousy judgments. After all, Hitler was elected. But Chavez has kept up his approval rating for a long time, so this is not exactly a "honeymoon" sort of rating. Unemployment and the debt are dropping. Sure the guy does disagreeable and undemocratic things like muzzle his critics in the press. All leaders do some pretty uncool things to stay in power. Frankly, Chavez doesn't strike me as being particularly unique in this regard. I don't see that I really took sides, I just read everything in the thread and saw that the guy has his good traits as well as bad traits. That's true of human beings all over the globe.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Perhaps he can deliver to Venezuala the success and prosperity that Castro delivered to the Cuban people.

 

[verte76]

I don't see Venezuela as another Cuba. And even if it is, I don't want to barge into Venezuela and tell them they can't have their popular leader. They like him. If things go sour they'll stop liking him and then everything will be different.

 

[Se7en]

Perhaps he can deliver to Venezuala the success and prosperity that Castro delivered to the Cuban people.

one has to wonder what life might be like without a crippling embargo by the u.s. and its satellites.

 

[INDY500]

"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." [crosses himself]

"And it smells of sulfur still today."

Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.

I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States. As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums, to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world.

An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: "The Devil's Recipe."

 

[Irvine511]

Bush does give him great material for his stand-up act.