Is anyone upset by the band's anti-gun position? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-21-2001, 02:23 PM   #16
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Sources:

Books: More Guns, Less Crime by John R. Lott Jr. and The Ten Things You Can't Say In America by Larry Elder

Websites: The Seven Myths of Gun Control, The Worldwide Gun Defense Clock

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Old 07-21-2001, 02:53 PM   #17
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Originally posted by LeftyEdge:
3A. What was the success rate of criminals against unarmed victims in 2000?

3B. What was the success rate of criminals against armed victims in 2000?


I have NEVER heard of a scenario where a crime was prevented due to a gun. I have NEVER read any article where a person said, "Thank God I had my gun, otherwise...". In contrast, I have heard people say, "If only I had a gun, then I would have...". You tell me, which is better?

I applaud U2's anti-gun stance, trouble is, it's falling on deaf ears or those too blind to see that there is little reason for guns in this world.


[This message has been edited by doctorwho (edited 07-21-2001).]
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Old 07-21-2001, 04:33 PM   #18
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Originally posted by doctorwho:

I have NEVER heard of a scenario where a crime was prevented due to a gun. [This message has been edited by doctorwho (edited 07-21-2001).]
You haven't? I live in Texas, and it happened twice in the Dallas/Ft. Worth, area within a month. One was an armed home invasion!

This is my favorite of Lefty Edge's stories! Gotta love it!

A PISTOL-PACKING Parañaque parish priest yesterday showed a father and son team of cell phone snatchers the wrath of a man of God.

Fr. Rico Nobleza, 32, of the Sta. Rita Parish in Parañaque City, was on board a jeepney going to Baclaran when two men also boarded the jeepney at around 5 a.m. yesterday.

One of the men, later identified as Manuel Samson, 49, of 119 F. Progreso St., Parañaque, sat beside the priest in the front seats. Samson’s son, Christian, 19, sat in the back.

Police learned that Manuel poked a knife at Nobleza and asked for his cell phone.

"I told him, 'Wait a minute, child, I shall get it from my waist,'" Nobleza told police.

However, instead of getting his cell phone, the priest pulled out a .45 caliber pistol and told the Samsons to surrender.

Seeing the pistol, father and son jumped out of the jeepney and ran.

But Nobleza, together with the other male passengers, chased the Samsons and eventually cornered them. The passengers brought them to the nearest police station.

At the police station, Manuel and Christian begged the priest not to file charges against them.

The priest refused and said only God could forgive them for what they had done.

"They should rot in jail for the things they have done," the priest boomed.

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Old 07-21-2001, 04:44 PM   #19
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I can understand picking up whatever is handy in order to defend yourself or others, but a priest carrying a gun??!

I never really got into the discussion this time, but this is most definitely where I'm getting out.
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Old 07-21-2001, 04:53 PM   #20
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Pick up a copy of the NRAs "American Rifleman"...they have a column called the 'Armed Citizen" that recounts reports of citizens with guns who stopped crimes.
At first I thought this was just so much NRA propaganda...but then they reported on an incident that happened less than five miles from where I live ( the dad shot to death an armed intruder). That story was reported accurately...I would assume the other reports are as well. Right now I have no reason not to believe so.
The idea of a crime being prevented doesn't make the news all that much unless there some unusual aspect to it...like the 80 year old lady who blows away a thug or whatever...

I'm not a rabid proponent of gun rights...but in the interest of fairness I just wanted to say the armed citizen protecting himself is not a myth...it does happen.

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Old 07-22-2001, 01:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by dream wanderer:
but then they reported on an incident that happened less than five miles from where I live ( the dad shot to death an armed intruder).

...but in the interest of fairness I just wanted to say the armed citizen protecting himself is not a myth...it does happen.
The other times you haear about these stories is when the assailant (or his/her survivors) turns around and tries to file charges or a lawsuit against the defendor. After all, if the intruder was "only" going to rob, rape or harm the family, maybe he shouldn't have been shot!

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Old 07-22-2001, 03:30 AM   #22
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I have NEVER heard of a scenario where a crime was prevented due to a gun. I have NEVER read any article where a person said, "Thank God I had my gun, otherwise..."
You haven't, doctorwho? Well, here are a bunch of them for you! Scroll down about 3/4 and look for the "Most Recent Armed Self-defense News Stories" header.

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Old 07-22-2001, 03:51 AM   #23
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No problem, 80s. Happened to me just the other day, remember?
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Old 07-22-2001, 03:52 AM   #24
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I would expect U2 to have an anti-gun position, and although I disagree with parts of it, I don't have a huge problem with them having that position.

But there are MANY cases of law-abiding, gun-owning citizens defending themselves witht their legally-owned guns. These cases usually don't make it to the media because tragedy is averted: there is no murder, and usually the attacker is not even shot. And it is all settled in a police report and non-jury trial and the assailant pleads guilty and goes to jail.

But I have a terrible suspicion, which I hope isn't true, that some parts of the alleged "anti-gun" movement do not have a problem with potential robbers and such having guns, just as long as the "law-abiding" types do not have guns. Maybe as a method of redistribution of the wealth?

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Old 07-22-2001, 04:16 AM   #25
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My two cents:

It's not about guns, it's about our society.
Without the freedom to bear arms, we would still be and English colony. Without our constitution, we would not have freedon of speech and freedon of religion. If they take away our right to own guns, will they take away or freedom of speech and religion too?

I grew up in a household where we always had guns. They weren't even locked up. I was free to use them as I pleased. It was my parents who instilled upon me the proper mindset and responsibility regarding guns. The fact is, it is the degradation of the American family that is to blame for the violence in America. I've been whitness to too many parents who just don't give a shit about their children to instill individual responsibility.

If crimials want a gun, they'll get a gun. No matter if they have to go through legal channels or not.

My motto is: "it's not our constitution that's obsolete, it's our society that's obsolete".

The family in America is in danger. And, with it, so is our freedom.

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Old 07-22-2001, 04:50 AM   #26
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personally, ive become very wary of big issues like this. so, since to my knowledge none of us have much power in government, why dont we wall try to make the world a better place, in any way we know how.

try it, it starts with the little things.

this DOES have to do with this thread.

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Old 07-22-2001, 06:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoomerang II:

I'm bored with this. I thought the human race had evolved to the point where a man was big enough to use his brain to get a message across without hiding behind a lethal weapon. Suppose we're not there yet.
[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 07-22-2001).]
You're right we're not there. And we never will be. As long as evil exists, we're gonna have to deal with it.
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Old 07-22-2001, 11:53 PM   #28
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There are several references to self defense in the bible. Surely you theists know this.

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Old 07-23-2001, 02:05 AM   #29
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There are people who grow up with guns in their house and are taught how to use them properly and taught gun safety, and then there are the kids in the inner city (and suburbs, for that matter) who grow up in material or emotional poverty or relative poverty and are looking for a way out. For the latter, violence becomes a means to an end. They don't have guns sitting on a gun rack on their wall. They go get the guns they need, by any means necessary. This is problematic.

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Old 07-23-2001, 03:06 AM   #30
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I suppose we all have the right to carry some semtex as well just in case we need to defend ourselves against a revolution or some army that may come along.

I'm bored with this. I thought the human race had evolved to the point where a man was big enough to use his brain to get a message across without hiding behind a lethal weapon. Suppose we're not there yet.

[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 07-22-2001).]
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