Is America more accepting of gay men than gay women? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-27-2002, 03:05 AM   #16
New Yorker
 
Achtung_Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Beneath the noise, below the din
Posts: 2,859
Local Time: 03:17 PM
if your theory is true Bubba then the majority of men are quite homophobic and that's sad. Hey here's a thought-- just drop porn altogether, that way you won't be arroused by men plus you'll have better chances at being a decent dude and future mate...



[This message has been edited by Achtung_Bebe (edited 02-27-2002).]
__________________

__________________
Achtung_Bebe is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 05:15 AM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Calluna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 3,542
Local Time: 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
It seems unnecessary and narcissistic.
It may *seem* that way to you but things are not always as they appear. It *seems* to me that you are just taking unprovoked jabs at melon.
__________________

__________________
Calluna is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 06:01 AM   #18
I serve MacPhisto
 
z edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: the HORROR
Posts: 4,022
Local Time: 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:


When watching porn, men want to A) see naked women and B) become aroused at the sight of naked women. With heterosexual porn, one runs the risk of accidentally becoming aroused by the male physique, which is definitely contrary to the intended purpose. With lesbian porn, no such risk; a male can look without fear of getting horny from seeing another male's rear.
Your point dosen't really make sense to me. Why would you be afraid of something that might accidentally arouse or excite you??

That makes as much sense as defecating in your own bed.



------------------
The hunter gets captured by the game
__________________
z edge is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 07:54 AM   #19
Blue Crack Distributor
 
LarryMullen's POPAngel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'll be up with the sun, I'm not coming down...
Posts: 53,698
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon:

Grr...I get so angry at times I wish I could break things...


Agreed.
__________________
LarryMullen's POPAngel is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 08:34 AM   #20
Blue Crack Distributor
 
tiny dancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: small town Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 87,295
Local Time: 09:17 PM
By know means no. You got people like Jerry Falwell and the Christan Coalition who are totally against them, as well as judging them. Hey my cousin was gay and died of aids, and even some of my family members could not except him. He was a good and kind hearted person and I missed him terribly.
__________________
tiny dancer is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 10:11 AM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung_Bebe:
if your theory is true Bubba then the majority of men are quite homophobic and that's sad. Hey here's a thought-- just drop porn altogether, that way you won't be arroused by men plus you'll have better chances at being a decent dude and future mate...
[This message has been edited by Achtung_Bebe (edited 02-27-2002).]
Hey, that's uncool. Achtung never said he looks at porn. He wasn't the one who brought up porn. He was simply trying to explain some questions about it that were brought up.
You were out of line.


__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 10:16 AM   #22
Bad Daddy Johnny
 
Johnny Swallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,925
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
Narcisism huh?
__________________
Johnny Swallow is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 10:42 AM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
In which case, what's the point giving yourself a thumbs up? It seems unnecessary and narcissistic.
Bubba, without commenting on the rest you wrote, everything that Whortense writes is a joke not to be taken seriously. In case you hadn't noticed, this thread was due to cause major tension. So take it for what it was meant to be: a joke.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 10:52 AM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 04:17 PM
hmm. Actually, I always thought it was the opposite. I mean, gay men (when they fit our stereotype of how they should act) are "cute" and "funny" and make good "side-kicks" on TV. Lesbian women don't seem to have the same appeal. Which works better? "Will and Grace" or "Ellen"? I think the former.

About men and porn...this is something that is a mystery to me. Guys get a kick out of watching two women getting it on....but I dont know of any woman (myself included) that gets turned on by watching gay male porn. What's up with that?

All that said, I have good gay male friends while I don't yet have any close lesbian friends, so maybe it's just in my experience that the men are more accepted.
__________________
sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 10:52 AM   #25
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
When watching porn, men want to A) see naked women and B) become aroused at the sight of naked women. With heterosexual porn, one runs the risk of accidentally becoming aroused by the male physique, which is definitely contrary to the intended purpose. With lesbian porn, no such risk; a male can look without fear of getting horny from seeing another male's rear.
Ah yes...the ultimate hypocrisy. Yes, Bubba, this does make a lot of sense. Thanks for bringing it up.

Anthropology, in the study of non-Western cultures that have no hang-ups on sex ingrained into their culture, came to the conclusion that most humans are likely really bisexual. "Bisexual" itself could mean anything from just incidentally attracted to men and very much attracted to women to being incidentally attracted to women and very attracted to men. There is a lot of gray area in between.

Of course, this poses a lot of trouble for the black-and-white world that *much* (not all) of Christianity demands in the Western world. However, theory gets even more troublesome, as it is believed that the most homophobic are often the most uncomfortable with their own sexuality; perhaps a bisexuality that troubles them. With a nation very uncomfortable with expressing true, raw, genuine emotion of any kind, we'll likely never solve this issue. I mean, how many "straight" men are going to admit an incidental attraction to men?

Just some thoughts of mine...

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 10:58 AM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Anthropology, in the study of non-Western cultures that have no hang-ups on sex ingrained into their culture, came to the conclusion that most humans are likely really bisexual.
melon, I've seen you bring this point up time and again as if it is proven fact. Having grown up in a non-Western, isolated native culture, I am baffled by this sweeping generalization because I have never found it to be true. In fact, in most native cultures I've had experience in, bisexuality isn't even an option and often is more taboo than in Western society.
__________________
sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 11:04 AM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by tiny dancer:
By know means no. You got people like Jerry Falwell and the Christan Coalition who are totally against them, as well as judging them.
They've cast a few too many stones in their day. Most interestingly, I believe, his speechwriter of many years, Mel White, came out as gay and broke away, starting his own more inclusive ministry. The Vatican, which is quite homophobic, has the hypocrisy of perhaps over half of the priests being gay--and this being a fact for well over 1000 years. St. Peter Damien, who lived way back then, wrote a book on the issue. The rule of celibacy, instituted by the anti-sex followers of St. Augustine, likely cemented this as a "gay profession."

The man I blame the most for modern times, however, is Sigmund Freud. In the seemingly naive Victorian Era, it was more than acceptable for men (not women, as much) to have very close male friendships. Their justification, at the time, was that they were fulfilling the early Christian concept of "agape," and they had the model of David and Jonathan in the Bible to back them up. Leave it to Freud to blanketly label it as sexually deviant and made such affection as a mental disorder.

Of course, this man was the ultimate pervert: everything we did had a sexual motivation. Hence, the 20th century and today, where sex is little more than a joke too often, and we are all emotionally uptight.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 11:13 AM   #28
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
melon, I've seen you bring this point up time and again as if it is proven fact. Having grown up in a non-Western, isolated native culture, I am baffled by this sweeping generalization because I have never found it to be true. In fact, in most native cultures I've had experience in, bisexuality isn't even an option and often is more taboo than in Western society.
Well, this depends. A lot of this study was done in Africa and in the remote Pacific islands. NOTE: I said anthropologists studied cultures with *no* built in sexual taboos. The cultures you have described have taboos already.

A theory on this was that thousands of years ago, tribal society was matriarchal. There was a mysticism surrounding the ability for women to bring on new life. Homosexuals were seen as mystical and were elevated to the status of holy men. Heterosexual men were at the bottom. However, men had brute strength on their side, got angry, and overthrew this model. To cement this model for all time, men of various world cultures created "creation myths" that cemented the position of women as always being subordinate to men and the cause of evil. Homosexuals were equally admonished as evil. Men were now the possessors of life; women just bear the incubating waters. Over the centuries, with most knowledge being passed on through oral tradition, those "myths" became seen as "truth." Hence, the structure became much of what it is today: heterosexual men on top, women subordinate, homosexuals on the bottom.

Some cultures, however, were remote enough that they were never exposed to this "coup."

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 02-27-2002).]
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 11:38 AM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:

Now... Guys.. And here follows Rhetoric for effect.. People (myself included) become disgusted with two guys grinding on each other at a College Dance, One grabbing the other's ass.. Nasty old Men will turn, shake their heads, and just mumble Queer..
And, I'm not sure why.. But just looking at an unnecessary display of Male/Male affection, just leaves me with a sick feeling in my stomach knowing that when they go home, one of them is going to have a d#ck in his mouth (A Quote that I cannot be credited with Stating).. Sure.. It may not lead to that always, but Again.. Rhetoric for effect.


To start with, I have absolutely no problem seeing two men or two women displaying affection in public. Instead, I find the prejudice and judgmental response to this to be the only absolutely disgusting about the situation.

Also, why assume that simply because two gay men are flirting that they will automatically have sex when they go home? I'm sure this assumption isn't made when a man and woman are flirting.

Quote:

As long as I don't see it, then I don't have a problem..


Yeah, you know I just can't stand to see all these straight couples holding hands on the street and hugging each other in public, even kissing each other goodbye! It's just terrible, I mean, it's their choice if they want to be straight, but do they really have to keep shoving it down everyone else's throat? Ugh. Make your own choices about your sexuality but don't make everyone else put up with it!

See how ridiculous it is when someone turns the tables and says exactly what you said about gay or lesbian couples about straight couples? Double standards. If only we could all accept that when two people love one another, that love is equally valid no matter whether it's between two men, two women or a man and a woman.

[This message has been edited by FizzingWhizzbees (edited 02-27-2002).]
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 02-27-2002, 11:47 AM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
Yeah, you know I just can't stand to see all these straight couples holding hands on the street and hugging each other in public, even kissing each other goodbye! It's just terrible, I mean, it's their choice if they want to be straight, but do they really have to keep shoving it down everyone else's throat? Ugh. Make your own choices about your sexuality but don't make everyone else put up with it!
actually, seeing two straight people going at it in public IS kinda disgusting to me. Maybe it's because where I grew up (southeast asia), public displays of affection were a HUGE no-no...it just was seen as being crass and totally lacking in manners. All that to say, I'm not a fan of seeing pda whether it be male-female, male-male or female-female. Save it for later for goodness sake.
__________________

__________________
sulawesigirl4 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com