Is a 20% tip not good enough anymore?

[Seabird]

I am getting very frustrated lately that when I tip a person 'only' 20% at a resturant, they make a huffy face, turn and stalk off without so much as a thank you. These are not fancy places I'm talking about. Most of the time my bill is $10-15 or less if I'm alone. I feel like any 10% tip is gracious, 15% is acceptable and 20% is more than kind, anything else just generous. No one has done anything special or beyond the call of duty for me, just their job. If the service has been good I think that 15-20% is fine. I realize these people work hard and it's nice to help them out, but so do I, and I'm not rich enough to go around bestowing gifts of people. Now I hestitate to even go places with table waiters because of this. What do you all think? Any bad experiences?

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

I think the normal amount of tip varies by region, but i would think that 20% is plenty. Where I live 15% is the norm, but I've heard that on the east coast 20% is.

 

[verte76]

It's 15% here in the South. I don't go out very much, so I've never run into this thank goodness.

 

[Blacksword]

It's a courtesy which has become an ironclad custom. Restraunts and teh like can pay their waiters (I'm using this as a gender neutral term here) less knowing that tips are almost expected. I fully understand this but unless the service is great don't expect more than 15%, especially if it's a large bill. I'm in university so I'm poor, most of teh time all I can afford is 10%. Though I never get a look for it.

But woe onto bad service. You won't get a dime from me. Maybe a penny if I feel like insulting you in response to insultingly bad service. Only did that once but it was for reeeaaaallllllly bad service.

 

[nbcrusader]

Tip jars on every counter drive me nuts

 

[bonosloveslave]

I was a waitress for 6 years - 15% was standard but I almost always worked my tail off to provide extra great service - and very often got 20-25% (off the very bottom total bill - including tax, drinks etc). I didn't complain if I 'only' got 15%, but it was always a nice surprise to get more than that, never expected. I usually tip 20-25% when I go out, just because I've been in their shoes....

 

[DaveC]

15% seems to be the norm around here, but I never calculate it out. I just give all the change I have less than $1 plus maybe a few loonies or a couple toonies or something, cause it's usually less than 30 bucks for me and my girlfriend, and I think 4-5 bucks is pretty generous.

And it seems to me like now, a tip is pretty much a guarantee, even if the service is bad. I don't like that, I feel a tip is something over and above the payment for services rendered and is totally 100% optional. If I don't think the waiter/waitress gave good enough service to merit a tip, over and above the minimum, I will leave one. Usually if a server is nice and actually seems like she gives half a damn about me, she'll get a few bucks. But if she doesn't seem like she cares and looks like she'd rather be somewhere else, and acts like I'm a hassle to be dealt with, I'll leave whatever I feel she deserves. Simple as that. I don't like how a tip has now become necessary.

That's my $2 (+ 15% for Seabird)

 

[Angela Harlem]

The problem begins with the hospitality industry paying such appallingly low wages. How they can get away with such skewed awards is beyond me.
Pay your staff right, make them happy to work for you, service will be better (see happy staff), the bill might be a bit higher to accomodate, but people will pay it because they get good service and good food. No need for tipping.

 

[Leeloo]

Tip jars on every counter drive me nuts

Me too! When it reaches the point where you owe someone just for ringing you up, it's scary. It's one thing if a person hast taken your order, brought your food, refilled your drinks, and severd you well, but I don't think a person who merely rang up a cash register has anything else coming. Now even hotel maids expect handouts, as do hairstylists, delivery boys, etc. I'm tired of stores, not just resturants anymore, expecting customers to subsidize the low wages of their help.

I too have worked these jobs, and I know how hard it is and how underpaid they are. But I've also been a consumer fed up with constantly having to dish out extra money for services already paid for. It's going too far. The prices we pay are enough already. We shouldn't have to pay twice because the owners are too cheap and want to be greedy and keep more profits. That is the root of the problem.

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

yeah, tip jars all over the place annoy me too. They're usually at food places like starbucks and whatnot. I should put a tip jar on my cutting table at Joanne's

 

[Bunbury]

I tip whatever I feel like in restaurants, unless I'm with big groups then I pay the percentage.
Otherwise screw percentages it depends on how good the service was.

 

[bonoman]

By far the worst is how they have the tip option on the debit machinces!! Fuck off, if i want to leave a tip i'll ask her to put it on the total. I tip whatever i think is neccesary, i usually round it to a even numer or something like that. What tips do in the service industry is give employers a opportunity to pay their staff less, they know we feel preessured into tipping so they dont care.

 

[Danospano]

I'm currently employed as a bartender and I can understand why a waitress or someone else of that profession would WANT more than a 15% or 20% tip. More and more recently I've noticed that people are tipping less on account of the economy. That means that when people actually leave a tip of 15%-20% it just reminds us that everyone COULD tip even a little bit, but choose not to. I don't anyone expects more than 15% in this day and age, so I suspect they're having a bad day or maybe just mad at where they are in life. Argh!

 

[Blacksword]

No knock on all bartenders but when I get ignored for five minutes before getting a drink in a bar I generally don't feel like dropping a dollar or more on top of my already overpriced drink. Some are really good and they get my tip but if you can't keep track of who's been there the longest you should get out from behind the bar. And a ton of bartenders aren't even properly trained all they do is hand out beers or hand out watery rum and cokes. If its just some bimbo who was hired for her double Ds rather than any actual ability (this applies for waitresses too) you can bet the tip's gonna be small or non existent. Sorry just my personal pet peeves. Bad service is one big reason the Philthy McNasty's (big chain bar in Ontario) in my home town had to resort ot wet T-shirt contests and High School reunion nights to keep its doors open.

 

[bonoman]

I never and cant see myself in future tipping bartenders at a large club. If i am paying 4-5 bucks for a fucking beer then dont expect a tip. And another thing, bars price their drinks so that tips get left. They sell beers for 4.25 and then expect you to drop the other 75 cents for tip. No way. Food industry gets a tip from me because they focus on me fo a long period of time, or a waitress at a local pub gets a tip but not a bartender at an over priced over packed club! The way i look at it is if i have to approach you and beg for attention then you dont deserve a tip. All they are doing for me personally is opening a beer and taking my money, no real reason for a tip there.

 

[AvsGirl41]

Me too! When it reaches the point where you owe someone just for ringing you up, it's scary. It's one thing if a person hast taken your order, brought your food, refilled your drinks, and severd you well, but I don't think a person who merely rang up a cash register has anything else coming. Now even hotel maids expect handouts, as do hairstylists, delivery boys, etc. I'm tired of stores, not just resturants anymore, expecting customers to subsidize the low wages of their help.

Tipping hairstylists really bugs me.

I've done it twice at my current salon out of guilt and then felt dumb for doing so.

I mean, it is my stylist's job to give me a good haircut. I shouldn't have to tip when it comes out well!! And most stylists in independent salons make good money--I know with booth rental and the whims of management, it can be less but still. I worked as a receptionist at a salon and on a Saturday, the owner/head stylist pulled in hundreds of dollars...and people were still expected to leave tips ranging from $5-$15 dollars.

Despite fetching them hot coffee, wine and food, I *never* got tipped.

And yet, when a grocery sacker helps you out with your things, they are not supposed to be given tips at all. Considering the perfectly healthy people I helped load groceries, this always seemed a bit unfair. I never even thought about getting any, then one day someone gave me one--of course I tried to give it back, I was so shocked but they insisted. It was nice.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Tipping hairstylists really bugs me.

I've done it twice at my current salon out of guilt and then felt dumb for doing so.

I mean, it is my stylist's job to give me a good haircut. I shouldn't have to tip when it comes out well!! And most stylists in independent salons make good money--I know with booth rental and the whims of management, it can be less but still. I worked as a receptionist at a salon and on a Saturday, the owner/head stylist pulled in hundreds of dollars...and people were still expected to leave tips ranging from $5-$15 dollars.

I'm not sure where you live but most hair stylists I know do not make very good money. (unless they work in a trendy top notch salon in Chicago, for example) There are usually two types of employment for salons. The first is a system where salons take a large cut of a hair stylists cut/color, ect. For example if a hair cut costs $25 I have heard of salons taking any where from 10%-60%. The other system paying rent. A stylist must pay his or her employer "rent" to work at a salon. This amount varies widely.
I don't know any hair stylist at a decent salon that is paid an hourly wage.

Anyway, I don't feel bad tipping when I get my hair done, but then again I really like my stylist and I know that I could never do myself what she does for me.

 

[Danospano]

In reponse to the bartender statements: If you're at a busy bar and you tip generously upfront (say, $5), you will NOT be ignored. If you are, the bartender will notice the look on your face and never EVER neglect you again. The key is to tip early when busy. If it's a slower night of the week and the bar's crowd is sparse at best, tip small increments with every other drink or run the risk of being ignored. By small I mean a quarter to 50 cents per beer or a dollar per drink. That's the unspoken rule in my book and it almost always warrants excellent service with a smile and a bit of wit too. It's your call.

Conversely, if you're at a club that charges a cover, and then charges you $4.25 for a freakin' beer then all I have to say is, "Why did you go to the club". Clubs have always charged more for their beers and drinks!!!! It's not the bartenders fault, and if you choose to ignore their service, they'll ignore your presence until they damn well feel like helping you out with your requests.

Boo-yah!!!!!!!

 

[bonoman]

In reponse to the bartender statements: If you're at a busy bar and you tip generously upfront (say, $5), you will NOT be ignored. If you are, the bartender will notice the look on your face and never EVER neglect you again. The key is to tip early when busy. If it's a slower night of the week and the bar's crowd is sparse at best, tip small increments with every other drink or run the risk of being ignored. By small I mean a quarter to 50 cents per beer or a dollar per drink. That's the unspoken rule in my book and it almost always warrants excellent service with a smile and a bit of wit too. It's your call.

Conversely, if you're at a club that charges a cover, and then charges you $4.25 for a freakin' beer then all I have to say is, "Why did you go to the club". Clubs have always charged more for their beers and drinks!!!! It's not the bartenders fault, and if you choose to ignore their service, they'll ignore your presence until they damn well feel like helping you out with your requests.

Boo-yah!!!!!!!

That is the exact reason i wont tip a bartender. All they care about is giving service to people that leave tips. Last time i checked a tip was something people left when you went above and beyond what the customer expected. Its not there to bribe your server into giving you service.

I dont go to club often, but the once in a while time that i do they arent seeing alot of my money unless they do something for me that i never expected. Give me a round on the house after i've bought 100$ worth of drinks and you'll see a return. If not you arent seeing anything from me. This is the sole reason i only order from waitress's.

 

[AvsGirl41]

I'm not sure where you live but most hair stylists I know do not make very good money. (unless they work in a trendy top notch salon in Chicago, for example) There are usually two types of employment for salons. The first is a system where salons take a large cut of a hair stylists cut/color, ect. For example if a hair cut costs $25 I have heard of salons taking any where from 10%-60%. The other system paying rent. A stylist must pay his or her employer "rent" to work at a salon. This amount varies widely.
I don't know any hair stylist at a decent salon that is paid an hourly wage.

Anyway, I don't feel bad tipping when I get my hair done, but then again I really like my stylist and I know that I could never do myself what she does for me.

I live in Denver, and I worked in a nice, but hardly trendy or top notch salon. And I was in charge of the book-keeping, which meant I had to collect the booth rent from the stylists. I can't remember what the booth rent was now, I'm thinking it was about $100-$150 every week, or every other week. I do know that even with that cut (which went towards the overall rent/upkeep of the salon) the stylists were doing very well--without tips. One haircut and highlight can cover that, easily.

I also know how much the products one buys are marked up--everything outside of tax can be pocketed. Bottles of shampoo were usually marked up alot. And this was definitely *not* an upscale salon, just your typical surburban strip mall one.

I know there are salons who take large percentages, but it's rather the same argument as tipping a waiter--I shouldn't have to make up for the low percentage the person is making. I'm paying $100.00 to get my hair done, plus any product I buy, and adding another $10-$15 hurts. I love the way my hair comes out, my stylist does a great job, but it's insane to be expected to tip on top of it.

I guess I could be totally off, but none of the stylists I have had or worked for seemed to be starving.

 

[Leeloo]

Of course they all don't get paid well. Of course they all want more money. But get real. It's ridiculous to pay almost the price of what you bought, ate or got done. It only runs up the price of everything. I still think the problem is greedy, tight business owners coming to expect customers to help pay their employees after they have already paid for the product or service. Oh yeah, it would be great for people to keep handing you extra money. But they have to realize, most of us can't afford it and are struggling ourselves.

I am furious when a place adds in the tip on the end of the bill, and then the have the waiteress tell you with a smile and a fake friendly voice, it was "to save you the time and trouble!" That is presumptuous and rude. I reserve the right to tip based on the service.

 

[Danospano]

Bonoman: By your rationale a bartender must ignore everyone else in the entire bar to please you, or suffer the consequences implying they're not worthy of a tip. For someone to go out of their way for precious, little YOU, they'd probably get a meager tip while getting nothing from everyone else. Now, if the bartender is inept at his job, and I think we all know how that differs from what I'm talking about, then of course they shouldn't get ANYTHING. I've been there, man. Unfortunately, working as a courteous bartender I have seen days when I've gone beyond the call of duty and never seen a cent. It happens more often than customers realize, so the fault was presumably started by the tightwad customers; not the bartenders...all those years ago

As for the managers/owners of bars and restaurants: They typical pay their bartenders a minimum wage of $5.15, and sometimes more all depending on what type of bar. I've heard that girls at those Coyote Ugly and Bad Girls bars make upward of $15 per hour plus tips. Most waitress make less than minimum wage. For the amount of work required in a bar setting it's ludacris to only get paid by way of tips. They're servant, slavish wages and on top of that you get no respect and 1 out of 3 customers are rude, indignant, and sactimonious bastards. That's not an overstatement.

Believe me, I understand your frustration. I've been on the other side and felt slighted because of maladroitness, but most bartenders are eager to make you happy. It wouldn't make sense to piss-off the hand that feeds you.

 

[bonoman]

All i want from a bartender is to relize who is there first, to not be particluar on who they are serving (as in dont be going after the hot girls because you think they are going to go home with you, not you but the guy) also when i have been waiting for 10 minutes and have seen 5 people go ahead of me and i start to raise my voice out of frustration not to get the bouncer to ask me to leave. The last guy who did that got the half pint of guiness thrown at him.

Hey maybe i just hate bartenders who think they control all things at the bar instead of just giving me my fucking drink. But get me into a small pub and a pint of anything and treat me right and you'll be very pleased with the tip i leave. I'm not cheap but just picky on who get my money!

 

[Danospano]

 

[Blacksword]

Though the greatest thing is when they assume as tip and don't bother to give you any change. Happened at said Philty McNasty's. I was like WTF! Iwas gonna give you the 50 cents probably the 75 cause you served me quickly, but at least give me the dignity of tipping rather than just assuming it's yours by right. And they wonder why they need to pull gimmicks to pull incustomers. The last timeI was there was for the reunion thing and I haven't been back since, nor will I be going. The best is that they're moving into a bigger location whihc has been the kiss of death for any buisness that has set up there. One place lost its liquor licence for selling booze to minors the other place was so useless it was empty 90% of the time. Here's to a third stike on the location.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

I am furious when a place adds in the tip on the end of the bill, and then the have the waiteress tell you with a smile and a fake friendly voice, it was "to save you the time and trouble!" That is presumptuous and rude. I reserve the right to tip based on the service.

The only time I put the tip on a bill is when I waited on a party of 8 or more. On our menu it stated that 15% gratuity would be added for parties of 8 or more. You can bet your ass I wrote it out on every check. Especially if I was in the banquet room waiting on 20 people who had seperate checks and kept moving seats on me. I even wrote out what 20% would be sometimes. It drives me insane when someone doesn't tip because someone else at the table did. At my job I had to pay out 20% of my charge tips, for taxes, and 2% of my total sales for bartenders and bus boys. Damn, I hated being a waitress. I think everyone should have to do it for a life lesson. A please and a thank you go a long way for servers.

 

[BAW]

I habitually tip 20% or more, even when I get marginal service.

To start with, the wages are crap. And it just can't be easy to serve people all day. Who gets blamed when the food isn't cooked properly or it takes too long to get to the table? The servers of course, even though the problem is most likely in the kitchen. I don't know if I could stand there with a smile on my face and listen to someone berate me because their steak isn't cooked right.

The only thing I do take issue with is the gratuity added for large parties. Fine, I understand its designed to keep the server from getting stiffed after the extra work it takes for a large group but when they add the 15% or 18% on for me, they've just screwed themselves out of the 20% or 30% tip I planned on leaving.

 

[Blacksword]

I just have issues with being expected to make up the difference for restrauts paying their waiters shite wages. I don't mind tipping so long as my waiter does a good job, but my family's never had huge ammounts of money to throw around. We don't eat out much for that reason. Why should we feel bad cause we can't afford to tip hugely. Couriers are vastly underpaid for the high stress work they do (my did that for a few months in a tight spot and nearly worked himself to death). They are under stress to do as much in one day as possible, on the road 8 or 10 hours a day, have big car expenditures and get paid terribly. Do they get tips or 20%. Nope. Right there I see a double standard. I tip waiters when they give me something to tip them for. It's not much. Be courteous, get my order right and keep your eyes open so you can see whenI want service. I can tell when someone's being overworked and covering too many table as tip them even if those criteria aren't perfectly met. I'm fair, I say please and thank you. I don't bitch out the waiter for kitchen screw ups. But because I don't give 20% when I can't afford it I'm supposed to feel bad? Sorry no way. BTW you can bet I'll tip any couriers I meet, and you should too, it a tough under valued job a lot worse than waiting tables (though keep in mind I'm not slighting waiters, that's not easy either but Couriers have it lots worse, trust me).

 

[U2Kitten]

Originally posted by Blacksword
I just have issues with being expected to make up the difference for restrauts paying their waiters shite wages. I don't mind tipping so long as my waiter does a good job, but my family's never had huge ammounts of money to throw around

I agree with Blackie. That's my story too.

I am always nice and courteous to them, very understanding when they're busy and don't refill my drink even though my mouth is so dry I can't eat if I see their hands are full. I have small children and I always clean up, or at least localize, their messes before I go. Yes, I have been a waitress. It's hard, humilating work. But everything he said is true of most people. If I were Bono I'd go throwing hundred dollar bills on everyone's table just to make their day. But I can't and I shouldn't be made to feel guilty over it.

 

[BAW]

btw...I was only speaking for myself in my last post. I never said "everyone" should tip 20%.

I don't think anyone should be guilted into tipping and if you are struggling yourself to make ends meet, then you should tip what you can afford. I don't want to get into a discussion of what job is more stressful or who should get more tips. I simply stated my own opinions on tipping.

I tip servers, my hairdresser, parking valets, bellmen, moving men and yes, couriers and delivery drivers. I don't do it because anyone has made me feel guilty, I do it because service industry jobs suck and they work hard at what they do.