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Old 04-07-2004, 10:46 AM   #31
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:01 AM   #32
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Originally posted by iacrobat


I don't think it can be argued that wife abuse, rape or child abuse is directly related to alcohol in the same way lung cancer is directly related to second hand smoke.

I think there are larger issues at work in the examples you gave, it's not simply an issue of alcohol. Alcohol may be a catalyst, but removing it would not resolve the issues.

A bad comparison indeed.
Some of these, but not all are somewhat bad comparisons. I dont think bonoman would disagree. There is though an issue directly related to alcohol itself with no bigger picture issues, like drunk driving, random accidents from foolish behaviour, and the simple fact that alcohol can and does break up families. It is as addictive and dangerous as many other drugs and it in itself is a major cause of just as many health problems.

Personally, I couldnt really care less if smoking was banned everywhere. I think its stupid, and definitely hypocritical as I cant honestly imagine everyone who disagrees with smoking in pubs never eats fast food, never throws down a few drinks here and there, religiously sticks to the exercise 3-5 times a week rule and doesn't set foot inside a poluted dirty city inhaling all the fumes. Please. It is as much about health issues as my arse. It has to be fundamentally the smell which pisses everyone off. And that is ok, because cigarettes stink. But health reasons, no way. When we see worldwide bans on McDonalds and Guinness then I will see a point.

Besides which, beer stinks. And McDonalds restaurants (oxymoron of the day) reek like shit too. We dont outlaw them. Though we should if we want to be fair about all this.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:18 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Some of these, but not all are somewhat bad comparisons. I dont think bonoman would disagree. There is though an issue directly related to alcohol itself with no bigger picture issues, like drunk driving, random accidents from foolish behaviour, and the simple fact that alcohol can and does break up families. It is as addictive and dangerous as many other drugs and it in itself is a major cause of just as many health problems.

Personally, I couldnt really care less if smoking was banned everywhere. I think its stupid, and definitely hypocritical as I cant honestly imagine everyone who disagrees with smoking in pubs never eats fast food, never throws down a few drinks here and there, religiously sticks to the exercise 3-5 times a week rule and doesn't set foot inside a poluted dirty city inhaling all the fumes. Please. It is as much about health issues as my arse. It has to be fundamentally the smell which pisses everyone off. And that is ok, because cigarettes stink. But health reasons, no way. When we see worldwide bans on McDonalds and Guinness then I will see a point.

Besides which, beer stinks. And McDonalds restaurants (oxymoron of the day) reek like shit too. We dont outlaw them. Though we should if we want to be fair about all this.

Triple +++ Angela Harlem. McDonalds stinks like shit and should be banned.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:25 AM   #34
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I don't think this smoking ban is going to have a huge effect on the bars, people will get used to it or if they are really desperate to smoke when they have a pint they can always come up to the North.
Anyway lots of pubs in the south have made bar gardens which enable people to go outside and smoke whilst drinking, this will surely attract the punters
So people will still be able to smoke, people get to drink in a smoke free environment which I see as a good thing I hate going out to the pub, the smoke irritates my eyes and I always look like an idiot with 2 pink eyes for the rest of the weekend. I don't see the big deal, if people are so desperate to smoke they can stand outside.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:30 AM   #35
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Originally posted by bonoman
The entire arguement that smoking kills and that this is for health reasons is bullshit, ask yourself if government were so concerned about health reason then why are smokes not banned in your country? Oh thats right, money, taxes. I pay 10$ CDN for a pack of smokes. $6.50 of that is federal tax! Did you know that? Maybe that the reason that smokes havent been banned, they want it both ways, they love our money but at the same time take away our freedoms.

What is next, not being allowed to smoke in your house? Our not being allowed to smoke in your car? There have been laws prohibiting smoking off public streets!

Doesnt anyone see the hipocracy of it all. All the non smokers here havent said a peep about getting rid of smokes all together, why, maybe because we are free to act as we like? But like to turn around and put smokers into a second class.

The people that complain they hate the bars because they are smokey and you smell like smoke, why are you still going to these bars? I dont understand it? Oh thats right, you'll accept the hardship of having to deal with something that discomforts you for plesure, well thats the only reason i can come up with. So now what you have done is put smokers into the same spot. When a smoker now goes to a bar they are put through the discomfort of having to go outside, into say -20C weather.

There has never been any comprimise brought forward. Like for example, has anyone here been into a casino, or a bar that has PROPER ventalation? If you have you will know the difference between a bar without and a bar with. Has anyone ever considered opening a bar for non-smokers? Obviously it is a great idea, since there are so many that hate smoking out there. Ya, i've seen places like that come and go, but i guess thats besides the point.
Bonoman, I understand why this bugs you man, but just think about it.
We know this is hypocrisy in a sense, but I wouldn't think it very fair of the government to step in and say that it's illegal to smoke, that would be stupid. It's your right to do what you want. However, it's when this imposes on the welfare of the greater majority that it becomes a problem. Smoke in a contained environment, ventilated or not, is bad for those in that environment. You can't deny this.

The health-reasons behind this enforcement are not bullshit. they're fact. irregardless of the government's hypocrisy, the greater public is still affected by second-hand smoke. Simple fact is, there are a greater number of non-smokers than smokers. It is unjust to impose on the rights of non-smokers to clean air in a public building.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:40 AM   #36
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Then what about the pollution by traffic, Dorian Gray?
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:58 AM   #37
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Then what about the pollution by traffic, Dorian Gray?
a huge problem.

were it economically, politically, and socially viable to rid our world of traffic, then I'd support such a measure. this however, is neither realistic, nor possible.

smoking is a problem of completely different proportions.
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:01 PM   #38
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but it is economically, politically and socially viable to reduce a large amount of private traffic in big cities. itīs also realistic and possible. donīt you think so?
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:12 PM   #39
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What has this got to do with the smoking ban in Ireland anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
but it is economically, politically and socially viable to reduce a large amount of private traffic in big cities. itīs also realistic and possible. donīt you think so?
I thought lots of cities are undertaking measures to reduce the amount of private traffic in certain areas.
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:16 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
but it is economically, politically and socially viable to reduce a large amount of private traffic in big cities. itīs also realistic and possible. donīt you think so?
the traffic issue is a good point. You might be interested in reading this: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993681

But I'm not sure your point. Is it really hypocritical that cars haven't been banned in public places? Efforts are made to reduce polution... Health officials advocate carpooling, taking public transport, etc. But I think that we can both admit that an attempt to ban all private traffic, while possible, could never happen. People would probably riot.
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:47 PM   #41
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
It is as much about health issues as my arse.
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Old 04-07-2004, 01:56 PM   #42
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I understand smoking is bad. I make the effort to not smoke around non-smokers. I'm not someone who is going to blow smoke in your face nor am i someone who will smoke if not allowed, in private homes, cars etc.

But to me it the fundamental point of being a free business and being up to the business owner. We live in capitalistic societies and have free enterprises, smoking should be left up to business owners.

I know smoking will become something of a underground thing in 10-20years. Its a fact i understand. And I like most smokers would quit tommorrow if we could. But it's hard. This might helps but not at the expense of business owners right to run their establishments the way they like. Eventually smoking would slowly be weeded out of bars, because the market would demand it, sure there would still be smoking bars but the majority wouldnt be smoking.

I understand everyone compnalints about smoking, i even hate the bleedin things, but i hope you understand the rights owners are losing and how gov't are dictating how to run their business's.
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Old 04-07-2004, 02:50 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
I understand smoking is bad. I make the effort to not smoke around non-smokers. I'm not someone who is going to blow smoke in your face nor am i someone who will smoke if not allowed, in private homes, cars etc.

But to me it the fundamental point of being a free business and being up to the business owner. We live in capitalistic societies and have free enterprises, smoking should be left up to business owners.

I know smoking will become something of a underground thing in 10-20years. Its a fact i understand. And I like most smokers would quit tommorrow if we could. But it's hard. This might helps but not at the expense of business owners right to run their establishments the way they like. Eventually smoking would slowly be weeded out of bars, because the market would demand it, sure there would still be smoking bars but the majority wouldnt be smoking.

I understand everyone compnalints about smoking, i even hate the bleedin things, but i hope you understand the rights owners are losing and how gov't are dictating how to run their business's.
fair enough. this is probably the strongest arguement anyone could make against the ban...
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Old 04-07-2004, 04:58 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
But to me it the fundamental point of being a free business and being up to the business owner. We live in capitalistic societies and have free enterprises, smoking should be left up to business owners.
Businesses are far from being "free". A smoking ban is only one of dozens and dozens of regulations that chip away at the "freedom" of a business owner.
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Old 04-07-2004, 05:45 PM   #45
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(04-07-2004) Bono In Irish Pub Smoking Drama - The Irish Star*


BONO U2 CANNOT SMOKE IN DUBLIN PUBS.

U2's frontman Bono was caught smoking on Saturday afternoon in Searsons of Baggot Street. Bono who only visited the pub to watch the Aintree Grand National was seen smirking as he lit up a smoke in the company of friends including The Edge. A spokesperson for the pub said that Bono indeed visited the pub for a few drinks on Saturday afternoon however they would not
comment on Bono lightling up all they could say was that there was no complaints by the public about anyone smoking on our premises.

If the U2 Frontman has indeed broke the new Irish law banning smoking in all workplaces he could be fined in excess of €3000. The new laws which were introduced just over a week ago have been a resounding success in Ireland which is the first country to ban smoking outright from all workplaces which will include trucks, vans, company cars, offices, pubs, restaurants.
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