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Old 03-28-2004, 07:25 AM   #16
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I was really using turkey in the historic context of a nation that was able to secularise and modernise under Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. I wanted to just relate the importance of having strong leaders who believe in the good of the nation rather than the good of one particular ethno-nationalist group (don't remind me about the PKK or the brand new Kongra-Gel, I know Turkey is mainly Turkic and the state doesn't exactly have a great history with the Kurd's). When you try to create a democratic system where nearly all competing interests are incompatible you will allmost certainly get a collapse of the system. Turkey is a good model of how a free and democratic nation can be built in a relatively short ammount of time on solid democratic and secular principles. I understand that Iraq is a much more complex situation in terms of having very distinct groups and ethnicities fighting for control in a democratic system.

Ultimately if you take it all down you get the following; When you have leaders who want to create a viable nation that isnt bound by religion or fear you will get a much stronger political system. It is the common thread that sets liberal democracys apart from the autocracys and theocracys that deny fundamental rights and supress cultural openness. In this respect I believe that a comparison between a good Iraqi government and Turkey is is apt and not because of the nationality of the people.

In retrospect it may have been better to have written the last sentence with a few minor adjustments.

Give me a dozen real Iraqi Nationalists and a good charismatic leader and I will give you a progressive arab nation. Look at Turkey, It is possible to create a democratic nation in a relatively short ammount of time when you remove religon from the state. It must be done in Iraq for both international security and for Arab pride (When there is an entire belt of dictatorial and repressive regimes it is a shameful indictment on the society's as a whole, if progressive open nations can be forged it may well win the "war on terror" and will certainly be a great boost to the region and humanity as a whole)

In furthur retrospect I believe that consuming the better part of a bottle of Ouzo that afternoon may not have given me the boost in eloquence that I could have sworn I had in the evening.
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Old 03-28-2004, 09:42 PM   #17
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Normal It Only Fits

Hamas Leader: Bush Is Enemy of God, Islam

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GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - The new Hamas leader branded President Bush on Sunday “the enemy of God, the enemy of Islam,” but stopped short of threatening to attack U.S. targets in retaliation for last week’s assassination by Israel of the Islamic militant group’s founder.

Driven underground by Israel’s vow to wipe out the remaining Hamas leadership by airstrikes, Abdel Aziz Rantisi emerged briefly for a fiery open-air speech before 5,000 people in the main courtyard of Gaza City’s Islamic University.

The actually quote is likely "Bush is enemy of Allah". But PC media translate this as "God".
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:29 PM   #18
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Re: It Only Fits

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Hamas Leader: Bush Is Enemy of God, Islam
The actually quote is likely "Bush is enemy of Allah". But PC media translate this as "God".
Even Arab Christians call God "Allah", so I'm not sure I would consider this PC. It's Arabic for "God" and has no direct connection with Islam.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:47 AM   #19
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Arab Christians I've met do not use the term "Allah" to distinguish beliefs between Christianity and Islam.
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Old 03-29-2004, 09:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Arab Christians I've met do not use the term "Allah" to distinguish beliefs between Christianity and Islam.
It's academic, I guess. Arab Christians I know personally don't use the word "Allah". They certainly don't use it in either Byzantine Melchite or Maronite church services. It's been claimed in books and such that they use this, but I don't have any first hand knowledge of this. My neighbors are Lebanese and Maronite, and for the record are registered Republicans. Their church is about to have a huge cultural festival with great food and stuff! Maybe it is PC, in which case I stand corrected.
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:07 PM   #21
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NAJAF, Iraq - Supporters of an anti-American cleric rioted in four Iraqi cities Sunday, killing eight U.S. troops and one Salvadoran soldier in the worst unrest since the spasm of looting and arson immediately after the fall of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).

cut


The rioters were supporters of anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. They were angry over Saturday's arrest on murder charges of one of al-Sadr's aides, Mustafa al-Yacoubi, and the closure of a pro-al-Sadr newspaper.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._re_mi_ea/iraq
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:19 PM   #22
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Damn, this is crummy news, to say the least.
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Old 04-06-2004, 12:50 AM   #23
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My Christian Prof. refers to God as Allah....... When he speaks of God, he uses Allah...
Ummmm.... one of the many names refered to as Allah is God.... As in the same God that Chrisitians and Jews follow..... As in the almighty who sent Prophets to earth.... another that some Pakistanis Indians and Irani's use is Khudia... etc. etc.
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