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Old 01-30-2003, 02:04 AM   #1
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Iraq or Pakistan ?

Iraq may or may not have weapons of mass destruction. Pakistan has. Al-Qeida may or may not be existing in Iraq. Many Al-Qeida members are still in Pakistan and that probably includes Al-Qeida CEO, Osama Bin Laden.

Pakistan is no democracy. The present President of Pakistan came into power by a coup. Pakistan is known to produce such coups.

What if the weapon of mass destruction fell into hands of Al-Qeida. The chances of that happening is more in Pakistan than Iraq.
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Old 01-30-2003, 09:40 AM   #2
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You better believe it.

Pakistan has no oil.
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Old 01-30-2003, 09:54 AM   #3
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Despite a long history of exploration—the first well in what is modern Pakistan was drilled in 1857, the first commercial discovery was made in 1914—Pakistan remains a modest producer of oil and gas and currently imports 80 percent of its crude oil requirements. The country is self-sufficient in natural gas, although this is likely to change demand increases. Oil and natural gas each account for about 40 percent of Pakistan's commercial energy supplies but currently form only a small part of the country's economy. The state-owned Oil and Gas Development Corporation (OGDC) remains the most important player in the Pakistani oil industry. Pakistan Petroleum Ltd. (PPL), established in 1950, produces the majority of the natural gas.

Foreign companies currently operating in Pakistan include: Union Texas Pakistan (produces around 30 percent of oil and 10 percent of natural gas); British Gas; Lasmo; OMV; Gaz de France; Shell; Unocal.

Pakistan is starved for cash. Pipelines leading from the oil and gas deposits in Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan, across Afghanistan, to Pakistan, and, eventually, to the enormous Indian market could provide Pakistan with a much-needed injection of cash in transport fees. Plus, Pakistan got nukes.

Iraq, on the other hand, holds more than 112 billion barrels of oil - the world's second largest proven reserves. Iraq also contains 110 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and is a focal point for regional security issues.
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Old 01-30-2003, 10:52 AM   #4
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ya guys, but its good against evil.

saddam is clearly the most evil man alive, and were the good guys.
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Old 01-30-2003, 12:15 PM   #5
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Moooo, so truuuueee
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Old 01-30-2003, 02:22 PM   #6
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blah bliddy blah blah blah.

the u.s. imports less than 10 percent of its oil from the middle east.
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Old 01-30-2003, 02:52 PM   #7
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meaning they want to import more for free in the near future?
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:32 PM   #8
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blah bliddy blah blah blah.

the u.s. imports less than 10 percent of its oil from the middle east.
I'd like to see official proof of that to believe it. If that were the case, why is it said that Iraq's largest oil customer is the US? Also, if the US imports less than 10 percent of the its oil from the middle east, why is it that there could be an oil crisis and higher prices at the pumps if the US attacks Iraq?

Facts first, please.
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:38 PM   #9
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There are vast differences between Pakistan and Iraq in terms of behavior.

Iraq has openly attacked Israel and invaded and attacked Iran, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia over the past 20 years.
Pakistans military has not invaded any countries over the past 20 years.

Iraq has used Chemical weapons on a multiple times over a period of several years. Pakistan has never used WMD weapons.

Pakistan has not violated international law in any way similar to the way Iraq has. It does not have any UN resolutions passed against it under Chapter VII rules. It is not in violation of 17 United Nations resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules. Pakistan is not in violation of a 1991 Ceacefire Agreement.

Pakistan has helped to kill and detain more Al Quada personal than almost any other country in the world except the United States.

Pakistan chief goals are detering a war with India, independence for the Muslim part of Kashmire, modernization of its military to deter India, and stability in Afghanistan and Iran so more Pakistani military units can be deployed along its border with India.

Pakistan has certainly engaged is some shady business in accomplishing those goals, But they are not in any way, behavior wise, on a level with Iraq. Not even close.

What makes Iraq and Saddam unique from any other country is simply its WMD weapons PLUS its past Behavior.
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:44 PM   #10
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And North Korea, STING2? U.S. troops fought a war against NK too, remember. Don´t they behave badly? Aren´t they evil?
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:53 PM   #11
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Iraq crude boycott targets U.S. oil import reliance
New York |Reuters | 05-12-2000
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Iraq's decision to impose a crude oil export boycott on the U.S. comes at a time when America's refiners have become more dependent on Baghdad's oil than ever before.

U.S. thirst for Iraqi crude has doubled in the past two years to some 750,000 barrels daily (bpd) - nine per cent of total U.S. oil imports - with No 1 U.S. oil firm Exxon Mobil, the No 2 Chevron and independent refiner Premcor leading the way.

Other purchasers Iraqi oil for their U.S. refineries include major BP and other leading independent refiners Koch Petroleum, Valero and Tosco. While U.S. oil companies do not have official contracts to buy Iraqi oil under the Opec producer's oil-for-food programme with the UN, they can import quite legally through oil trading middlemen.

The imports were threatened at the weekend when Iraq said it would boycott companies and countries that sold its crude oil to countries it regards as hostile. "Any company found supplying Iraqi crude to a country in a state of war with Iraq will be put on the blacklist and there will be a partial or full ban in dealing with it," said Iraqi Trade Minister Mohammed Mehdi Saleh.

Although the statement did not name countries Baghdad considered hostile, it was clearly referring mainly to the United States, which led the 1991 Gulf War against Iraq. At a time when U.S. winter stocks of crude and refined products are already running low, the threats may scare some companies from importing crude, according to some buyers of Iraqi crude.

"People are not buying Iraq crude because they are not going to run the risk of getting into trouble," said one oil trader. Iraq's move highlights the growing U.S. dependence on imported oil, as robust demand at home pulls away from declining domestic production.

Baghdad's penetration of the U.S. oil market has now surpassed pre-Gulf War levels, when exports were averaging around 500,000 bpd, Department of Energy figures show. In recent months, ExxonMobil has been taking in nearly 200,000 bpd, while Premcor has been importing 130,000 bpd.

Yet the oil market's muted response to Iraq's recent stoppage to all its crude exports has suggested that importers may not be as vulnerable to a disruption in Iraqi supply as has been feared, analysts say.

Crude prices have slid more than $2.50 a barrel since the Iraqis halted oil exports Friday over a pricing row with the UN. Traders say that lofty prices of above $31 have already taken into account the threat that Iraq could disrupt its exports ahead of winter.

"Saddam Hussein's gambit appears to have failed rather miserably," said Peter Beutel of Cameron Hanover in Connecticut. Traders say Iraq's refusal to sell to the United States could see more of its crude heading to the Far East, displacing oil from other Gulf sources such as Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia, the only Opec nation with significant production capacity, has vowed to fill any disruption from Iraq, a Saudi source told Reuters yesterday. "As long as overall world supply doesn't change, it's not going to be too big an issue," said a Premcor spokeswoman. "We assume it's just going to move some barrels around."

In addition, the United States reiterated yesterday that it was ready to dip into its own strategic crude reserves to counter an Iraqi supply disruption. "We are ready to take action to add supply very quickly if the situation should warrant," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher told reporters.

Still, some traders question whether Iraq will be able to carry out its threats. "Where does Iraq think its oil is going to go if it doesn't go to the U.S.?" asked one trader with a U.S. major oil company.


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I think ten percent´s pretty much.

But it could be more. And its about reserves, too.

Anyway, there is lots of oil imported from Nigeria and Venezuela, too.

Then, its about control of all the region, not only Iraq.
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:54 PM   #12
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The fact that the USA only gets 10% of its oil from the middle east is actually not that important. What important is the fact that the middle east has 60% to 75% of the worlds known reserves of oil. Instability in the region effects Global market price of oil. Even if the USA only imported .5% of its oil from the middle east, prices here in the USA would still move up or go down based on the situation in the middle east. Its not the amount of oil any one country imports from a particular region that effects price. Its the global market price which is effected by the global supply and global demand. Global market price effect the price of oil everywhere.
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:57 PM   #13
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Here is where approximately 80% of our oil comes from.
I would just like to note that there is humanitarian assistance that goes to Iraq for the oil if I am not mistaken. It is also true that much of the humanitarian assistance sent to Iraq winds up being sold on the black market.

PEACE....

Here is the link:

http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw246.shtml
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:04 PM   #14
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Yes, STING2, like I just said. Its about controlling all the region. Its about "Who´s the master here?"
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
There are vast differences between Pakistan and Iraq in terms of behavior.

Iraq has openly attacked Israel and invaded and attacked Iran, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia over the past 20 years.
Pakistans military has not invaded any countries over the past 20 years.

Iraq has used Chemical weapons on a multiple times over a period of several years. Pakistan has never used WMD weapons.

Pakistan has not violated international law in any way similar to the way Iraq has. It does not have any UN resolutions passed against it under Chapter VII rules. It is not in violation of 17 United Nations resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules. Pakistan is not in violation of a 1991 Ceacefire Agreement.

Pakistan has helped to kill and detain more Al Quada personal than almost any other country in the world except the United States.

Pakistan chief goals are detering a war with India, independence for the Muslim part of Kashmire, modernization of its military to deter India, and stability in Afghanistan and Iran so more Pakistani military units can be deployed along its border with India.

Pakistan has certainly engaged is some shady business in accomplishing those goals, But they are not in any way, behavior wise, on a level with Iraq. Not even close.

What makes Iraq and Saddam unique from any other country is simply its WMD weapons PLUS its past Behavior.
right, cause they dont have a dictator and because they allowed the united states to setup in their country during the afghani conflict.

ill scratch your back if you scratch mine.

sting2, have the united states EVER acted wrong in your opinion?
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