Iraq: Learning The Lessons Of Vietnam

[Sicy]

I left this thread open because its Sting's thread, if he wants it closed he can post here and we'll close it.

 

[yolland]

Oh, I didn't mean I wanted the thread closed. I was thinking of it as The Lock Victorious! Sorry if that didn't come across.

 

[Sicy]

Oh no prob.

 

[hiphop]

The 4 million people who died in Vietnam died as a result of North Vietnam's desire to force a Communist dictatorship upon South Vietnam

Nice stretch. Yep, in the end it must be the fault of the Vietnamese that the Americans killed so many over there. Same for the Napalm, blame the Commies.

Incredible how you twist history, trampling on the graves of so many victims. Shame on you.

Now go and report this inappropriate attack on your honorable personality and please do it fast enough.

 

[Se7en]

if the u.s. hadn't ignore ho's request for independence after ww1 AND ww2 the entire conflict could have been avoided. it was once asked of ho why he became a communist. he answer was simple, lenin was the only one who would help him. he was a pragmatic nationalist.

a simple overview of vietnamese history will also show they their people have thousands of years of experiences of expelling foreign invaders from their land. i don't think the vietnam war would have ended until you killed every man, woman, and child who was physically able to fight. you reap what you sew, so to speak.

 

[STING2]

Nice stretch. Yep, in the end it must be the fault of the Vietnamese that the Americans killed so many over there. Same for the Napalm, blame the Commies.

Incredible how you twist history, trampling on the graves of so many victims. Shame on you.

Now go and report this inappropriate attack on your honorable personality and please do it fast enough.

Go read the Faq/Rules.

The Vietcong and North Vietnamese openly targeted South Vietnamese civilians, the United States did not except in cases where individuals engaged in criminal activity.

Had the North Vietnamese respected the formation of South Vietnam and those that did not want to live under Communist rule, the war would not of happened. Instead, the North Vietnamese spent 20 years and million of lives attempting to force their Communist Dictatorship on people who wanted no part of it. Unfortunately because the United States abandoned South Vietnam in 1973, the North Vietnamese succeeded in their goal leading to the deaths and enslavement of millions of people.

In terms of accidental colatoral damage, far more European civilians died as a result of American bombing in World War II than Vietnamese civilians who died from American bombing in the Vietnam war.

 

[STING2]

if the u.s. hadn't ignore ho's request for independence after ww1 AND ww2 the entire conflict could have been avoided. it was once asked of ho why he became a communist. he answer was simple, lenin was the only one who would help him. he was a pragmatic nationalist.

a simple overview of vietnamese history will also show they their people have thousands of years of experiences of expelling foreign invaders from their land. i don't think the vietnam war would have ended until you killed every man, woman, and child who was physically able to fight. you reap what you sew, so to speak.

Japan had thousands of years of defeating all attempts to invade and conquer the country, but in 1945, Japan was defeated by the United States which then developed Japan into a strong stable democracy, something South Vietnam would be today if the United States had not abandoned the country in the early 1970s.

 

[Se7en]

Japan had thousands of years of defeating all attempts to invade and conquer the country, but in 1945, Japan was defeated by the United States which then developed Japan into a strong stable democracy, something South Vietnam would be today if the United States had not abandoned the country in the early 1970s.

wow

 

[hiphop]

Apparently the Vietnamese would have needed another American nuclear bomb to be as succesful as the Japanese today.

I hope we can all agree on this.

 

[A_Wanderer]

The war was compounded tragedy ~ cheifly for the Vietnamese people.

 

[japes4]

I spent a month in Vietnam in the summer of 2002 where 3 friends and I (2 of them Vietnamese) traveled from Hanoi in the North all the way down to Ho Chi Minh City in the south. I have to say that I was very surprised by what I found.

By American standards, Vietnam is a very poor country. People are not starving to death, but there isn't a lot of disposable income (the average Vietnamese makes $500 a year). Despite this, there is a sense of optimism that the country is moving in the right direction. In the late 1980s, the Vietnamese government started liberalizing its social and economic policies much in the same way that China has. State-run stores have all been replaced by KFC, Carvel and Louis Vouiton. There are restaurants and discotheques that rival anything that I've seen in New York. This was quite a shock for someone expecting a hardline communist regime.

One thing that really struck me was the number of internet cafes all over Hanoi and HCM City. Most people cannot afford a computer so they go to these cafes where you can rent a computer to do e-mail, play games and do word processing for about 10 cents an hour. I had no problem communicating with my family back in the States this way. I was also suprised that no website that I tried was censored in anyway. I was later told that internet cafes were illegal in China and those who did have access to the internet found numerous sites blocked out. This was just one example of how much more liberal Vietnam is compared to China.

The thing that surprised me most during my travels was the Vietnamese attitude towards Americans. Without exception, the Vietnamese people are some of the kindest and friendliest I've seen anywhere. People would buy us drinks just so they could practice their English. I did have a few conversations with people about the war and I was quite shocked by their feelings on the subject.

To most Vietnamese, the war was something that happened in the distant past. In the north, the Vietnamese felt that they were fighting an anti-imperialist war against the French and that the South Vietnamese government was just an extension of French rule. America became their enemy because we aided the French and later the South Vietnamese government. The Vietnamese never saw us as imperialists or colonizers, only as a country that was supporting a government that they were at war with. Now that the war is over, they have moved on, and they wish Americans would too.

My visits to certain historical sites confirmed what they said. In places like the Hanoi Hilton, the Reunification Palace, and the Ho Chi Minh museum, there was very little mention of the American involvement in the "War for Independence and Reunification." These museums were most critical of the French and their mistreatment of individuals when they were in power. Only the War Crimes museum in HCM City talked at any length about the American involvement, criticizing us for our use of agent orange more than anything.

More than anything else, the Vietnamese people want a closer relationship with the United States as a trading partner and a potential ally against Chinese expansionism. China and Vietnam have always been traditional enemies, so the Vietnamese fear more from them than they do the United States.

Less than 20 years ago, Vietnam was a war-ravaged nation with seemingly insurmountable economic problems. Communism was failing and people were trying to escape in droves. Now, Vietnamese youths go on weekend shopping trips to Hong Kong and foreigners are investing in beachfront properties and restaurants. I was told that you would've hardly recognized the country even 5 years ago. I can only imagine what it will look like 5 years from now.