Iraq: Learning The Lessons Of Vietnam

[STING2]

and a civil war in Viet Nam was the same threat as Hitler and the same threat as the Japanese that had bombed Pearl Harbor?


if you are going to use the WWII comparisons we had no business in VN or in Iraq today.

Saddam threatened the planets energy supply in a way Hitler was never able to and had weapons and development programs that Hitler never had.

The communist incursion into Vietnam was indeed a threat although not to the degree that Saddam and Hitler were. . South Vietnam had every right to be a free independent state just as much as South Korea. Most Vietnam veterans agree that the war was indeed just.

 

[japes4]

and a civil war in Viet Nam was the same threat as Hitler and the same threat as the Japanese that had bombed Pearl Harbor?


if you are going to use the WWII comparisons we had no business in VN or in Iraq today.

This is an excellent point...which leads me to my next question: Was the threat of communism and the current threat of Islamic fundamentalism on the same level of danger as that of fascism?

By one's opposition to Vietnam War and the current Iraq War, that answer must be no.

How then can one justify a war against fascism and not ones against communism and Islamic fundamentalism? All three threaten(ed) the existence of Western freedom and democracy.

 

[deep]

more of

deny, deny, deny?

Mini Nukes

Reporter: Graham Phillips Researcher: Paul Grocott

Transcript
Related Info
20 May 2004
A new generation of nuclear weapons – mini nukes is being planned by America. According to the US military, they need miniature nukes in the war against terrorism So they’re designing bunker busting weapons that can burrow down into the earth carrying a mini- nuke which would wipe out some rogue dictator’s control centre or destroy stores of chemical and biological weapons. And the military says, because these mini-nuke bunker busters will go off underground, the nuclear fall out from them will never escape. But the mini nukes have a lot of critics amongst them physicist Richard Slakey who says they won’t be able to burrow deep enough and more worryingly that the radiation fallout cannot be contained.

 

[FatBratchney]

If the United States had fought World War II with the same restraints that it had in Vietnam and now has in Iraq, it never would have won.

FatBrachney, at no point have I ever insulted you. Please give others the same courtesy. [/B]

WW2:The combined Allied AND Axis forces dropped over 2.5 million tonnes of high explosives in the COMBINED theatres of war in Europe/Asia/South Pacific.

Vietnam:MORE the DOUBLE the above figure is dropped on a small-illequipped 3rd world nation in South East Asia.


What "restraints" are you talking about?
4 Million Vietnamese WERE KILLED.
That is 3 million off from the Jewish Holocaust.
WHAT "restraints" are you talking about?


It is so very diffucult to hold back and NOT say something REALLY MEAN.
Especially -knowing how unmolested these common neo-con delusions go on almost every message board I've been to.
MORE public space filled with neo-con lies and revisions.

 

[STING2]

more of

deny, deny, deny?

Yep, a love how the article states they were need for the war in Afghanistan or Iraq. To hell with the facts. The United States should have such weapons, but that does not mean they are going to be used on some mass scale if at all.

Yep, more accusations and assumptions.

 

[deep]

Saddam threatened the planets energy supply

you let a little truth in

it is "Blood for Oil" Haliburton and Cheney thank you and the President says "There will be more sacrifice to horor the dead and huge tax cuts to the oil companies while they are having RECORD profits"

yes BLOOD (more sacrifice) for OIL.

 

[FatBratchney]

How then can one justify a war against fascism and not ones against communism and Islamic fundamentalism? All three threaten(ed) the existence of Western freedom and democracy. [/B]

You NEED to be capable of distiguishing between a neo-con fantasy and basic political reality.

Don't expect half-intelligent peeps to entertain these neo-con myths.

 

[japes4]

You NEED to be capable of distiguishing between a neo-con fantasy and basic political reality.

Don't expect half-intelligent peeps to entertain these neo-con myths.

Where am I wrong?

 

[deep]

This is an excellent point...which leads me to my next question: Was the threat of communism and the current threat of Islamic fundamentalism on the same level of danger as that of fascism?

America WOULD not fight to stop fascism.
The good old boys, in America First would not allow the "Intervenetalists" to join the 'European War".

FDR told Jewish Leaders that if I ask Americans to die for Jews in Europe the War effort will be set back even further.


It took an attack on America to get the US in the War.

 

[STING2]

WW2:The combined Allied AND Axis forces dropped over 2.5 million tonnes of high explosives in the COMBINED theatres of war in Europe/Asia/South Pacific.

Vietnam:MORE the DOUBLE the above figure is dropped on a small-illequipped 3rd world nation in South East Asia.


What "restraints" are you talking about?
4 Million Vietnamese WERE KILLED.
That is 3 million off from the Jewish Holocaust.
WHAT "restraints" are you talking about?


It is so very diffucult to hold back and NOT say something REALLY MEAN.
Especially -knowing how unmolested these common neo-con delusions go on almost every message board I've been to.
MORE public space filled with neo-con lies and revisions.

Once again the tonnes of bombs dropped vs. World War II is irrelevant, although it is interesting to note that over 50 million people died in World War II compared to only 4 million in Vietnam despite the fact that more than twice as many bombs were dropped in Vietnam. With your analogy, everyone in Vietnam should have been dead after the first two years of fighting.

The restraints that the United States was under during the war:

1. The United States military was not allowed to bomb within 100 miles of the Chinese border for most of the war.

2. Much of Hanoi and the area within 30 miles of Hanoi was often off limits for bombing by the United States military.

3. Most of North Vietnam's Harbors were often off limits to bombing or mining for most of the war by the United States military.

4. The United States military was restricted in bombing certain area's of Laos that the North Vietnamese used.

5. The United States military was restricted in launching any sort of ground invasion of North Vietnam.

6. The United States military was also restricted in launching any sort of MAJOR ground invasion of Cambodia and Laos for most of the war until the 1970s. Cambodia and Laos were extensively used by the North Vietnamese and Vietcong to launch brutal attacks on South Vietnam.

7. The United States military was not allow to bomb any area or near any area that may of had Soviet military advisors or Chinese military advisors in North Vietnam.

4 million Vietnamese died, but that includes South Vietnamese military personal, North Vietnamese personal, Vietcong, South Vietnamese civilians murdered by Vietcong and North Vietnamese forces, and yes, cases where US military firepower did cause civilian deaths, the vast majority which were not intential. If it had been the United States goal to cause mass death, the United States could have killed everyone in North Vietnam in a matter of months with nuclear weapons and other bombing measures.

 

[STING2]

you let a little truth in

it is "Blood for Oil" Haliburton and Cheney thank you and the President says "There will be more sacrifice to horor the dead and huge tax cuts to the oil companies while they are having RECORD profits"

yes BLOOD (more sacrifice) for OIL.

The planets economy and way of life is dependent upon energy supplies from the Persian Gulf. If Persian Gulf energy supply were to be disrupted or sabotaged for any reason, the cost of energy would sky rocket causing a global depression far worse than the 1930s with incaculable consequences for the future. The people who feel the effects of such a disaster the most would be the worlds poor who would immediately be unable to afford the new energy prices. Complete shortages in many area's would happen rather quickly. As the global supply of energy is suddenly and drastically cut, the demand for what remains goes up by the same margin, resulting in a massive increase in prices and a total economic disaster.

 

[Dreadsox]

Don't expect half-intelligent peeps to entertain these neo-con myths.

You are quite insulting to others.

 

[FatBratchney]

Most of the US Military's activities were concentrated INSIDE S.Vietnam.

Most Vietnamese casualities were INSIDE SOUTH VIETNAM.

That fact that 50 million died WORLDWIDE died in WW2 and "only" 4 Million died in Vietnam does NOT serve your neo-con rhetoric well at all.

Thats a LOT of people to be killed by a VASTLY MORE WELL equipped US Military.

Some would call it a Holocaust.

 

[japes4]

Most of the US Military's activities were concentrated INSIDE S.Vietnam.

Most Vietnamese casualities were INSIDE SOUTH VIETNAM.

That fact that 50 million died WORLDWIDE died in WW2 and "only" 4 Million died in Vietnam does NOT serve your neo-con rhetoric well at all.

Thats a LOT of people to be killed by a VASTLY MORE WELL equipped US Military.

Some would call it a Holocaust.

Some people would call the Allied bombings of Dresden and Tokyo (McNamara I believe) to be holocausts.

Sometimes that is the nature of war, and the reason why it is so important that wars are justified.

 

[japes4]

America WOULD not fight to stop fascism.
The good old boys, in America First would not allow the "Intervenetalists" to join the 'European War".

FDR told Jewish Leaders that if I ask Americans to die for Jews in Europe the War effort will be set back even further.


It took an attack on America to get the US in the War.

This is true, but was the American entry in WWII justified in a way that the Cold War and the War on Terror are not?

 

[FatBratchney]

Sometimes that is the nature of war, and the reason why it is so important that wars are justified. [/B]

So,as long as its successfully "justified"-with millions spent in Public Relations fees to,lets say,Henry Kissinger's firm in NY--it's OK to bomb /murder 1-2 million peeps?


YOU are either insane OR just DUMB.

 

[STING2]

Most of the US Military's activities were concentrated INSIDE S.Vietnam.

Most Vietnamese casualities were INSIDE SOUTH VIETNAM.

That fact that 50 million died WORLDWIDE died in WW2 and "only" 4 Million died in Vietnam does NOT serve your neo-con rhetoric well at all.

Thats a LOT of people to be killed by a VASTLY MORE WELL equipped US Military.

Some would call it a Holocaust.

Could you please stop stereotyping people in here as being neo-con or following some conservative book writer. It does not strenthen your arguement when you do that.

Its rather unfortunate that so much of the United States military activities were concentrated in South Vietnam, but given the constraints that were forced to operate under, they had little choice.

The 4 million people who died in Vietnam died as a result of North Vietnam's desire to force a Communist dictatorship upon South Vietnam and spread their Communist influence to other countries. They accomplished both task by conquering South Vietnam in 1975, two years after the United States wrongly abandon the country, and helped install brutal Communist regimes in Cambodia and Laos. It was North Vietnam that attacked South Vietnam when it was formed and continued to attack South Vietnam until it overran it in 1975.

 

[STING2]

So,as long as its successfully "justified"-with millions spent in Public Relations fees to,lets say,Henry Kissinger's firm in NY--it's OK to bomb /murder 1-2 million peeps?


YOU are either insane OR just DUMB.

Did you read the Faq/Rules yet?

http://forum.interference.com/misc.php?action=faq

 

[Dreadsox]

Did you read the Faq/Rules yet?

http://forum.interference.com/misc.php?action=faq

Have you? Or are you living in a glass house?

 

[FatBratchney]

The 4 million people who died in Vietnam died as a result of North Vietnam's desire to force a Communist dictatorship upon South Vietnam and spread their Communist influence to other countries. They accomplished both task by conquering South Vietnam in 1975, two years after the United States wrongly abandon the country, and helped install brutal Communist regimes in Cambodia and Laos. It was North Vietnam that attacked South Vietnam when it was formed and continued to attack South Vietnam until it overran it in 1975. [/B]

Anything I could say after THIS ^^^ load of BULLSHIT will get me banned from this Neo-Con U2 Message Board.

 

[STING2]

Or are you living in a glass house?

Is that comment in keeping with the Faq/Rules?

 

[Dreadsox]

Is that comment in keeping with the Faq/Rules?

If you think I am out of line, report me.

 

[japes4]

So,as long as its successfully "justified"-with millions spent in Public Relations fees to,lets say,Henry Kissinger's firm in NY--it's OK to bomb /murder 1-2 million peeps?


YOU are either insane OR just DUMB.

Have you ever heard of a civilized debate? Your posts border on complete hysteria. What is your problem?

 

[FatBratchney]

Have you ever heard of a civilized debate? Your posts border on complete hysteria. What is your problem?

YOU are simply delusional.Have a nice day.

 

[japes4]

YOU are simply delusional.Have a nice day.

You never respond to any of my posts directly. You simply resort to name-calling when you don't have a real response to any of my points.

All I have to do is sit back and watch you make a fool out of yourself.

 

[FatBratchney]

You never respond to any of my posts directly. You simply resort to name-calling when you don't have a real response to any of my points.

All I have to do is sit back and watch you make a fool out of yourself.

YOU will be watching yourSELF,asshole.

 

[Sicy]

Ok everyone, you can stop reporting Fat troll's posts.. the user has been BANNED from this forum!


http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&goto=lastpost&forumid=224

 

[indra]

Ok everyone, you can stop reporting Fat troll's posts.. the user has been BANNED from this forum!


http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&goto=lastpost&forumid=224

 

[japes4]

Ok everyone, you can stop reporting Fat troll's posts.. the user has been BANNED from this forum!


http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&goto=lastpost&forumid=224

Thank You!

 

[yolland]

PPPfffffff!

DUMB--just STUPID.