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Old 09-28-2006, 11:29 AM   #61
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Originally posted by Irvine511



and the "war" movement has never resulted in peace either.

war is good for business.
Nazism?
Communism?
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:32 AM   #62
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Nazism?
Communism?


and we still have enemies today. we're still fighting.

the "war" movement is always looking for an enemy, gotta justify spending all that $$$ on all those bombs.
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Old 09-28-2006, 12:30 PM   #63
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Okay, you ignored pretty much every point I made.
Actually I didn't. Your points all revolved around political/military manoeuvering AFTER the war started. My point was that the original rationale/strategy for going to war in the first place was not fully transparent nor well-understood beyond the "war on communism".

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The anti-war sentiment was bred in media, academia, and eventually Capitol Hill.
Did that make it wrong?

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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Unless you can prove otherwise, the "peace" movement has NEVER resulted in peace.
I'm not arguing that it has. But I did ask what was learned from Vietnam now that history has repeated itself and how that learning can be applied to winning...
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:00 PM   #64
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Originally posted by AliEnvy
there was no clear exit strategy
And what was our "exit strategy" in World War II, or any war for that matter?

This whole "exit strategy" argument is such a cop-out. Why should we have an "exit strategy" before the enemy is defeated? It sounds defeatist to at best. If you think an "exit strategy" is how you win a war, I'd like you to sight an example.

We'll negotiate with Al Qaida after they waive the white flag on an unconditional surrender - by putting them all on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity just like the Nuremberg Trials.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:05 PM   #65
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ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Was 9/11 funded by the Saudi government?

If so, can you back it up?
You never asked that?

That's not what you stated. You are now changing your criteria. Sign of weak logic.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:07 PM   #66
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Did that make it wrong?
It influenced Capitol Hill Democrats to turn against Hubert Humphrey - who also pledged to win the war honorably, and it gave Lyndon Johnson all the more reason to keep the troops in guerilla warfare rather than bombing military targets. Once the Watergate Scandal broke out, the Democrats used it as an excuse to surrender in Vietnam and turn their backs on a faithful Ally - South Vietnam. As a result, we got Khmer Rogue.

So really, it depends on whether or not Pol Pot's massive slayings would be considered "wrong."

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I'm not arguing that it has. But I did ask what was learned from Vietnam now that history has repeated itself and how that learning can be applied to winning...
History is repeating itself in the sense that we don't have the balls to defend ourselves. What history could tell you from WWI (Vote for Woodrow Wilson, he kept us out of war!) and WWII (the naive public who believed that WWI was a hoax) is that we should have stopped the Nazis in the 1930s, rather than waiting until 1941 to get involved. Nearly 300,000 US soldiers lost their lives in that war, in case you like death tolls.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:08 PM   #67
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You never asked that?

That's not what you stated. You are now changing your criteria. Sign of weak logic.
Look back - I did.

You're dodging the question because you can't answer it.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:09 PM   #68
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Look back - I did.

You're dodging the question because you can't answer it.
I just looked back before I stated that and you are wrong you never did. You may want to follow our discussion before you embarass yourself.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:12 PM   #69
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and we still have enemies today. we're still fighting.

the "war" movement is always looking for an enemy, gotta justify spending all that $$$ on all those bombs.
America fought:

Nazi Germany
Fascist Italy
Imperialist Japan
Soviet Union

All of them were threats to our survival.

You cannot expect the world hedgemon NOT to have enemies.

And I suppose by your logic, America can stand on its own if only we disarmed our nuclear arsenal.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:15 PM   #70
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I just looked back before I stated that and you are wrong you never did. You may want to follow our discussion before you embarass yourself.
Page 2:

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
They're harboring more terrorist than Iraq was, where have you been?

Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Who - the Saudi government? Do you have anything to back this up?
But go ahead and believe otherwise if you want to.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:16 PM   #71
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Originally posted by Irvine511
war is good for business.
Interesting you would say that. My dad was in B2B sales at the time of the Iraq war selling security cameras. His sales flopped as a result of invading Iraq.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:21 PM   #72
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
And what was our "exit strategy" in World War II, or any war for that matter?



oh, i don't know, the surrender of Germany and Japan?


[q]This whole "exit strategy" argument is such a cop-out. Why should we have an "exit strategy" before the enemy is defeated? It sounds defeatist to at best. If you think an "exit strategy" is how you win a war, I'd like you to sight an example.[/q]

an exit strategy isn't an example of winning a war, it's how you win an occupation. big, big difference.


Quote:
We'll negotiate with Al Qaida after they waive the white flag on an unconditional surrender - by putting them all on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity just like the Nuremberg Trials.
AQ doesn't have a white flag to wave. if you think so, if you think AQ is just another army, then you have completely and totally missed the discussion of the past 5 years.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:21 PM   #73
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Page 2:

But go ahead and believe otherwise if you want to.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Was 9/11 funded by the Saudi government?

If so, can you back it up?
Those questions seem to be different don't they? Mac, you may want to lay off the drink this early in the day.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:23 PM   #74
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Interesting you would say that. My dad was in B2B sales at the time of the Iraq war selling security cameras. His sales flopped as a result of invading Iraq.


and your single anecdote proves what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...strial_complex


Eisenhower:

[q]A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.
[/q]
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:56 PM   #75
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Those questions seem to be different don't they?
Again, way to dodge the question.

For the millionth time,
DID THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT FUND THE 9/11 ATTACKS?
If so, where's the proof?
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