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Old 12-08-2005, 12:12 PM   #1
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Iran's Compromise on Israel

Don't wipe them off the map, just move them to Europe

Iran's Ahmadinejad says Israel should be moved to Europe

Quote:
Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that if Germany and Austria feel responsible for massacring Jews during World War II, a state of Israel should be established on their soil. Ahmadinejad, who sparked an international outcry in October when he said Israel "must be wiped off the map", also repeated his view Thursday that the Jewish state was a "tumour".

"Now that you believe the Jews were oppressed, why should the Palestinian Muslims have to pay the price?" the hardline president asked in an interview with Iran's Arabic-language satellite channel, Al-Alam.

"Why did you come to give a piece of Islamic land and the territory of the Palestinian people to them?

"You oppressed them, so give a part of Europe to the Zionist regime so they can establish any government they want. We would support it," he said, according to a transcript of his original Farsi-language comments given to AFP.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:22 PM   #2
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the worse things get in Iraq, the more Iran breathes fire.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:42 PM   #3
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Originally posted by Irvine511
the worse things get in Iraq, the more Iran breathes fire.
You're right. The worse things get for militant Islam, the more the militants in Iran feel cornered and stir up anti-semetism to gain support.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


You're right. The worse things get for militant Islam, the more the militants in Iran feel cornered and stir up anti-semetism to gain support.

nah. they know the US is incapable of handling anything else being bogged down in a quagmire. so they rattle their sabres. it was before Iraq that their leaders were more compliant to U.S. demands than they are now that they have seen how the Iraqi resistance has frustrated our not-so-invincible-anymore military. it seems as if the invasion of Iraq has probably done more to strengthen the oppressive Iranian regime, domestically and in the Middle East, than any set of events since 1979.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


You're right. The worse things get for militant Islam, the more the militants in Iran feel cornered and stir up anti-semetism to gain support.


and where do/did we find militan Islam in Iraq?

i mean, it's there now, in some form, but Iraq was secular pre-invasion.
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:01 PM   #6
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Re: Iran's Compromise on Israel

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Don't wipe them off the map, just move them to Europe



Palastine was wiped off the map.

and no good came from that.
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:14 PM   #7
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Really, the country of Palestine was wiped off the map?
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:17 PM   #8
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The Orthodox Jewish response to the criticism of the Iranian President

(statement for Al Q'uds Day)

28 October 2005

With the help of the Almighty.

Orthodox Jews the world over, are saddened by the hysteria which has greeted the recent stated desire of the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to see a world free of Zionism. This desire is nothing more than a yearning for a better, more peaceful world. It is a hope that with the elimination of Zionism, Jews and Muslims will live in harmony as they have throughout the ages, in Palestine and throughout the world.

It is a dangerous distortion, to see the President’s words, as indicative of anti-Jewish sentiments. The President was simply re-stating the beliefs and statements of Ayatollah Khomeini, who always emphasized and practiced the respect and protection of Jews and Judaism. The political ideology of Zionism alone was rejected. President Ahmadinejad stressed this distinction by referring only to Zionism, not Judaism or the Jewish people, regardless of whether they reside in Palestine or else were.

We concur!!… Orthodox Jews have always prayed and till today, continually pray for the speedy and peaceful dismantling of the Zionist state. As per the teachings of the Torah, the Jewish law, the Jewish people are required to be loyal, upstanding citizens, in all of the countries where-in they reside. They are expressly forbidden to have their own entity or state in any form or configuration, in this Heavenly decreed exile. Furthermore, the exemplification of one-self, with acts of compassion and goodness, is of the essence of Judaism. To subjugate and oppress a people, to steal their land, homes and orchards etc. is of the cardinal sins, of the basics crimes, forbidden by the Torah.

We have long stood together with the suffering Palestinian people in their struggle for self determination and respect. Based on our religious teachings, we believe it is impossible that any lasting peace can be achieved, for so long as the state of Israel exists. It is towards this goal of true reconciliation that religious Jews strive; via Palestinian statehood, so that we can once again reside in harmony and brotherhood.

May we merit to see the fruition of our prayers. Ultimately we pray for the day when all mankind will recognize the One G-g and serve Him in harmony. May this come upon us in the near future. Amen.

Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
Neturei Karta International
Jews United Against Zionism
link here - <-------------
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:52 PM   #9
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Re: Re: Iran's Compromise on Israel

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Palastine was wiped off the map.

and no good came from that.

Come again?
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Old 12-08-2005, 02:06 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Re: Iran's Compromise on Israel

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Originally posted by ouizy



Come again?
a settlement would have been much better for the State of Israel
than creating Palestinian refugees that garner sympathy and support from many

we have had decades of bloody conflicts with tens of thousands of deaths


a settlement is coming
and the bloodshed will vastly subside

my wish is that the settlement would have been reached much, much earlier
and generations would have been spared
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Old 12-08-2005, 02:47 PM   #11
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agreed
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:27 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Iran's Compromise on Israel

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Palastine was wiped off the map.

and no good came from that.
The Palestinians had a perfect opportunity to forfm a state in 1947 with the UN partition plan, but they rejected it. They chose to use violence to try and push every Jew into the sea. The results though of choosing war and violence in this case have only hurt them. One would think and hope that after 60 years of a failed policy of terrorism and violence, Palestinians would finally adopt non-violent options to achieve their goals of statehood since terrorism has failed so terribly for them.

Palestianians could of had 50% of the land, but now they will only get a small fraction of that.
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:31 PM   #13
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And as for monetary aid it seems that the PLO cronies got their cut while that monster Arafat was able to funnel the most part of it into his own private accounts.

And the recent UN conference celebrating solidarity with the Palestinians showed a map of Palestine, a map that completely covered Israel. It seems that it has become a lot easier to adopt a Hamas style one state solution for the organisation.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
link here - <-------------
Are you actually familiar with the views of Neturei Karta, deep, or did you just happen to stumble across this particular document?

There are quite a few Orthodox anti-Zionists, particularly among the Chassidim, but the NK are considered fringe and disreputable by all the rest. They are a small sect of a few thousand, descended from Hungarian Jews who emigrated to Jerusalem in the early 1800s (meaning, among other things, that they missed out on the Holocaust). While they share with other Orthodox anti-Zionists a rejection of the religious legitimacy of Israel as a state, they go way beyond that to assert that the Holocaust was divine retribution against the the European Jews for their sinful lifestyles, and that a scattered diaspora existence is what God wants for the Jews. They also officially aligned themselves with the PLO, and there is some fairly damning evidence that their chief rabbi was on Arafat's payroll (though to be fair, not all the relevant documentation has been declassified by the Israeli government).

The NK themselves make me sick, though I have far more mixed feelings about anti-Zionist Orthodoxy in general. Before the rise to power of the Nazis, most European Jews, including most of my parents' families, opposed the Zionists, for many reasons: religious Jews because the Zionists' proposed state was a secular, socialist entity that wholly rejected the possibility of the Messiah; secular Jews because they feared being branded traitors to the countries they held citizenship in; communist Jews because they held out hope for a grand social revolution that would make anti-semitism a thing of the past.

Clearly I am biased, but I think "Heavenly decreed exile" is a repulsive way to describe what happened next. I will be the first to agree that much of what subsequently unfolded in Israel/Palestine is also repulsive (yes, I am including the Israeli state in that). But looking at the historical evidence and the hard realities of what the Allied powers were and were not willing or able to do, I can come to no other conclusion than that a Jewish state was a necessary step at that point to protect what was left, and that there was never a snowball's chance that it might be located in Europe. Ahmadinejad is smart: he knows that Lloyd George et al. were motivated as much by the desire to keep an influx of Jewish refugees out of their own borders, as by altruistic concerns, and he is calling them on that here.

My parents, along with more than a quarter of a million other Jews, remained stuck in displaced persons' camps for several years after the war because of closed borders, continued pogroms to the east, punitive immigration caps all around, and just plain having no community, belongings or resources left to go home to. My parents were lucky: they were among the 80,000 allowed to emigrate to the US when Truman forced through a temporary increase to the immigration caps in 1948.

Finally, the idea that Jews and Muslims have lived "in harmony...throughout the ages" is laughable. Yes, it is true that overall and in the grand scheme of centuries, Jews fared better in Muslim lands than in Christian ones. But the history of Jews in Muslim lands is also heavily strewn with persecution, being caught between Muslim factions jockeying for control, and just in general being second-class citizens.

I support a two-state solution, and hope it will be far more generous to the Palestinians than what is currently in the offering. The manner in which they were summarily swept aside to allow "resolution" of what they had no part in creating was and is deplorable. But Ahmadinejad, of course, does not support the existence of Israel at all. I do not believe the Jews would be safe in Palestine without it and, once again, do not see mass emigration being either desirable, nor likely to be allowed by the prospective alternative home countries.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:16 PM   #15
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I think that one thing the extreme left and extreme right have in common is anti-semitism.
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