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Old 01-04-2008, 12:30 AM   #286
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I guess my young mind would answer that most Americans support smaller taxes, a strong defense and traditional values which at times emphasize religion. And with some 90% of Americans being religious, this makes sense.

And here's where I think you and many conservatives don't understand government or either don't bother to understand the government.

Yes, less tax is great in theory, but when you want to wage an endless war or build a wall, this makes no sense what so ever. Your base just comes off as either clueless or selfish...

Strong defense is a great old school term to use, but means nothing today. We aren't in an arms race anymore. Tell me exactly what "strong defense" means to you today. Because honestly in Iraq our biggest problem is that we don't have enough personal...

And honestly when it comes to traditional values, don't get me started. "Traditional" values have nothing to do with Jesus' values'
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:31 AM   #287
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'tis fun to be part of a despised minority, no?

Indeed. But it's like we're a little less despised these days. . .if Iowa is any indication.

the day is coming, Irvine. . .the day is coming. Stay in the fight.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:33 AM   #288
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Tell me how Republicans hate black people.
I admit to a little bit of hyperbole. "Hate" is a strong word. (It's also can be subtle so that's why I say a "little bit" of hyperbole).

But the Republican party has exploited racism to help their candidates. Harold Ford is the most recent example of this.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:36 AM   #289
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Originally posted by maycocksean

But the Republican party has exploited racism to help their candidates. Harold Ford is the most recent example of this.
And now more (white) women voted for Obama than Hillary.

So the Republicans are really going to have to push those commercials before all these women go black and never look back.

This one time I was in Jamaica...
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:39 AM   #290
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But what's your point about John Brown making more of a difference than Lincoln?
I think

I said it the other way around

that Lincoln is over rated (in my opinion)

and John Brown - is a true hero - almost forgotten (again, my opinion)

a person can lead in the right direction
and if not many follow
it does not take away from the heroic effort

on a side note
Big Mama Thornton's - Hound Dog
is the real deal for me

But most people are only familiar with Elvis Presley's - Hound Dog
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:40 AM   #291
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And now more (white) women voted for Obama than Hillary.

So the Republicans are really going to have to push those commercials before all these women go black and never look back.

This one time I was in Jamaica...
Those commercials are aimed at motivating the base more than the center, I think.

As for going black. . .my wife can vouch for that!
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:40 AM   #292
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Originally posted by maycocksean


I admit to a little bit of hyperbole. "Hate" is a strong word. (It's also can be subtle so that's why I say a "little bit" of hyperbole).

But the Republican party has exploited racism to help their candidates. Harold Ford is the most recent example of this.
Neither party has been extraordinary when it comes to civil rights. But simply comparing the GOP to the Democrats (Robert Byrd, anti school-choice, anti Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, among others) they ain't much worse. Let's not forget it's the current President who has appointed the two highet blacks ever in American government.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:41 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


I admit to a little bit of hyperbole. "Hate" is a strong word. (It's also can be subtle so that's why I say a "little bit" of hyperbole).

But the Republican party has exploited racism to help their candidates. Harold Ford is the most recent example of this.
Republicans don't have any problems with blacks that don't want special rights.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:43 AM   #294
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Originally posted by deep


I think

I said it the other way around

that Lincoln is over rated (in my opinion)

and John Brown - is a true hero - almost forgotten (again, my opinion)

a person can lead in the right direction
and if not many follow
it does not take away from the heroic effort

on a side note
Big Mama Thornton's - Hound Dog
is the real deal for me

But most people are only familiar with Elvis Presley's - Hound Dog
Got it. Lincoln overrated. John Brown underrated.

Fair enough.

I would actually agree that Lincoln is overrated, but only in the sense that no one can be as great as he as often been lionized to be. (Certainly habeaus corpus wasn't of great concern to him, for one thing). Even so, he was still pretty great.

Also on a side note: I do a pretty good karaoke of "Hound Dog."
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:43 AM   #295
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Tell me how Republicans hate black people.
Tell me what your party does to help leveling the playing field for minorities...

They were the last to join the civil rights movement, they were the last to join the women's rights movement, your party is last for every social movement known to mankind, etc...

They claim minority actions are racists but they do nothing to try and end the cycle of poverty that strikes minorities.

They have a very non-white voting record since experience is so important to you.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:46 AM   #296
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



They were the last to join the civil rights movement, they were the last to join the women's rights movement, your party is last for every social movement known to mankind, etc...

whoa, whoa! Overstating, overstating!

You've got to qualify that you mean the Republican party of the past 40 years (or less), beyond that you don't have much of a case for this argument. . .
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:49 AM   #297
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Neither party has been extraordinary when it comes to civil rights. But simply comparing the GOP to the Democrats (Robert Byrd, anti school-choice, anti Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, among others) they ain't much worse. Let's not forget it's the current President who has appointed the two highet blacks ever in American government.
In recent years, the Republican party has used racism as a tool to gain votes for their side. Give me an example of the Democratic party doing the same? (And don't even bother to mention Joe Biden. That wasn't a campaign commercial or strategy, that was an old-school white guy letting his racism slip much like Trent Lott did).

I'm not saying anything about any individual in the Republican party and one does have to credit the diversity of Bush's administration--but the party is definitely the one that courts the racist vote.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:51 AM   #298
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And what the Republican party has done re: gays and lesbians is really too shameful for words.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:53 AM   #299
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whoa, whoa! Overstating, overstating!

You've got to qualify that you mean the Republican party of the past 40 years (or less), beyond that you don't have much of a case for this argument. . .
You're right, I should have said social conservatives, but still my point stands true. Social conservatives regardless of what party have always been on the wrong side of history.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:57 AM   #300
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Got it. Lincoln overrated.
I have two hard back books on Lincoln I need to read. One by Gore Vidal, I know it will somewhat be fictionalized, but I really enjoyed his book on Burr.

Also, I have one called
Lincoln's Melancholy: How Depression Challenged a President and Fueled His Greatness.
I heard a lecture by the author and bought the book.

perhaps I should read to be better informed.

But why bother
I can just go with my gut, like W.
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